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NEARING

Thoughts Create. Do The Right Thing.
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911 Explosive Evidence at WTC Cited by Former CDI (controlled demolition) Employee

Seeded on Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:53 PM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: cms.ae911truth.org
us-news, 911, controlled-demolition
Seeded by nearing
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Having had the privilege of speaking with Tom Sullivan, an actual explosive-charge placement technician, we have some new insights to pass along as to how controlled demolition works, where it started, and the effect that 9/11 had on the demolition industry. Sullivan gained his experience as an employee of the leading firm in this field, Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI). Sullivan stresses though "I do not in anyway represent CDI and what I have to say is based on my own experience and training,"

Sullivan notes that many weeks are required to "prep," or weaken the buildings before demolitions. Steel frame buildings don't just fall into their footprints at free-fall without major work throughout the building – even some before the placement of explosives. Sullivan emphasized as an aside, "Fire cannot bring down steel-framed high rises -- period."

Sullivan stated that he knew from the first day that the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7 on 9/11 was a classic controlled implosion. Asked how he thought it might have been done he posited, "looking at the building it wouldn't be a problem -- once you gain access to the elevator shafts…then a team of expert loaders would have hidden access to the core columns and beams. The rest can be accomplished with just the right kind of explosives for the job. Thermite can be used as well."

He noted that:

Remote wireless detonators have been available for years. Look at any action movie -- and of course the military has them. The reason most contractors don't use them is that they are too expensive -- but in a project with a huge budget it would be no problem. As for the casings -- everyone in the industry, including Blanchard, would know that RDX explosive cutter charges are completely consumed when they go off -- nothing is left. And in the case of Thermite cutter charges, that may also be the case. Thermite self-consuming cutter charge casings have been around since first patented back in 1984.

We asked Sullivan if all the floors in WTC 7 would have to be loaded with explosives in order for a successful controlled demolition. He responded,

No, with steel framed buildings you really need only to load the bottom third to bring the building down. While at CDI we had a job in Hartford Conn, the CNG building, where we did just that. And it worked out beautifully.

And as Sullivan watched the towers collapse that day, like so many did, he pondered at how fast it all took place, and how suddenly and symmetrically they were brought down. "I knew it was an explosive event as soon as I saw it, there was no question in my mind," said Sullivan. Most of us agree -- it's not by chance that the first tower just happened to collapse -- then the second in the same manner. What convinced him completely is when he watched Tower 7 fall that day, "I mean, come on, it was complete destruction. I've seen buildings fall like that for years -- that was the end game for me." Keep in mind that Sullivan did this for a living for several years -- it is like second nature for him to see this type of demolition. If anybody would know, it should be him. But we went ahead and asked him, "Is there any chance that normal office fires (the official cause of the 'collapse') could have been responsible for the smooth, symmetrical, free-fall acceleration of building 7? "Not a chance," he retorted. We just wanted to be sure.

When we asked him if he followed any of the 9/11 Commission hearings or that of the NIST reporting, he had the same answer for both "I have no tolerance for people who lie to me about what I know to be true. I threw my hands up in disgust and never watched another hearing after the first. As for NIST, I didn't even watch because I knew what to expect." He did however follow the final report on the collapse of Tower 7 and said it angered him that they could actually convince so many of their fraudulent claims.

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nearing

Sullivan first came into contact with AE911Truth through a friend that sent him the9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVD. He watched it and was very excited that there was actually an organization out there trying to inform people of what he was trying to say since that fateful day. “AE911Truth is the most focused and organized group there is today in the 9/11 truth movement. There is no speculation," he said. "Blueprint for Truth is factual and impressive information based on science and physics, and was clear and concise." When asked if he agreed with the evidence the DVD brings forth, Sullivan responded, "It contains extremely compelling evidence."

The final question we asked in this interview was, "How many architects and engineers does it take speaking in unison until people hear that there is a problem?" His response, "As the number grows it will be harder and harder to deny them -- but deny them they will."

This interview was a very damning indictment of the Official Story. Please read the whole thing, especially his credentials.

  • 28 votes
#1 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:54 PM EDT
JACK DEATHExpand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Neariing,

This truther gibberish has been totally debunked. Why not add in Alex Jones to complete this insanity?

  • 25 votes
#1.1 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:17 PM EDT
nearing

JACK,

This truther gibberish has been totally debunked.

ROTFLMAO!!

You obviously didn't bother reading the interview.

Debunked? Hahaaaaaahhaa

  • 25 votes
#1.2 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:28 PM EDT
JACK DEATH

The demolition explosives residue was/has been completely debunk.

But, have fun with the conspiracy theory if it makes you happy.

  • 21 votes
#1.3 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
D DeMilo

.....and pay no attention to that man behind the curtain....

  • 17 votes
#1.4 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:40 PM EDT
nearing

The demolition explosives residue was/has been completely debunk.

Nope.

.....and pay no attention to that man behind the curtain....

lol, exactly.

  • 22 votes
#1.5 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:43 PM EDT
JACK DEATH

SO you are saying they found shape charge peice and det cord peices?

  • 12 votes
#1.6 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:53 PM EDT
nearing

not doing your homework for you, JACK.

  • 21 votes
#1.7 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:04 PM EDT
JACK DEATH

You do not have too. Neither was ever found.

  • 15 votes
#1.8 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:06 PM EDT
nearing

thermite residue was, so not sure why you think you have a point.

San Francisco Bay Area architect, Richard Gage, AIA, founder of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth with more than 1,000 petition signers calling for a new investigation, will present the overwhelming evidence of explosive–controlled demolition of all three WTC skyscrapers on that historic day September 11, 2001. He presents the latest forensic evidence on the features of controlled demolition in relation to the Twin Towers and WTC Building 7: Sudden Onset of Destruction, Symmetrical Collapse & Progression, Explosions, Demolition Waves, Near Free–fall Acceleration, Total Dismemberment, Lateral Ejection of Steel, Adjacent Structures, Sounds and Flashes, Explosions, Pyroclastic–like Clouds, Iron Spheres, Molten Metal, and Evidence of Thermite incendiaries and nano–therimite composite explosives. He also discusses the ASCE, FEMA & NIST Reports, Whistle Blowers, Destruction of Evidence, Expert Corroboration, and Foreknowledge.

  • 22 votes
#1.9 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:07 PM EDT
RKB123

I suppose this demolition was done in part to justify the Iraq invasion?

  • 9 votes
#1.10 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:52 PM EDT
nearing

for JACK & SR--

“The Official 9/11 Story...Accept Without Question”

An atmosphere has been created where questioning the official explanation or asking for a reinvestigation is seen as blasphemy. While a critical analysis of the 9/11 Commission Report is absent from mainstream media, a number of questions go unanswered and unrecognized by most Americans.

In the days following 9/11, government officials claimed they never imagined anyone attacking the nation by flying planes into buildings even though warnings of such an event had been given from both within and outside of the US. On August 6, 2001, President Bush was warned by the President's Daily Brief, headlined, "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US." In the year before 9/11, Italy, Morocco, and Britain released detailed and urgent warnings to the US of planned attacks using planes as weapons where the World Trade Center was given as a specific target.

The security of our borders and airports were never increased to protect from such a threat. However, surface to air missiles were placed on the roof of the Sarasota Florida resort in which President Bush was staying the night before the attacks. This was not a typical security procedure at the time.

On September 11, 2001, war games were being held by the military and intelligence agencies, which included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane striking a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York. When it was recognized that morning by air traffic control that several commercial airliners were not responding and were off course, a response was delayed significantly as it was confused with the large scale war game taking place. Fighter jets could have easily intercepted the hijacked planes under ordinary circumstances but the jets of nearby Air Force bases were otherwise occupied. Between September 2000 and June 2001, fighter jets were sent by the FAA to intercept errant aircraft 67 times; such a task was routine whenever a plane would lose radio contact or fly off course. Isn't it strange that war games mimicking similar terrorist attacks were taking place at the exact time of the actual events of 9/11 causing confusion and leaving such sensitive locations vulnerable to attack? If this was only an incredible series of coincidences, why did the official investigation avoid reporting on this issue?

Unclassified documents reveal that the United States has planned and engaged in a number of false flag attacks throughout recent history.

Rahm Emanuel, White House Chief of Staff under President Obama is quoted as saying, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste — and what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you didn’t think you could do before.” It is clear that the events of 9/11 opened the door for the degradation of Americans' civil rights, unprecedented intrusions into citizens' private lives, as well as undeclared and unjustified war. What is not clear is how an event as catastrophic as 9/11 was permitted to happen. If the mainstream media continues to be our source of information, we will certainly never know the answers to such questions.

The majority of Americans have failed to look beyond the television news, radio, and newspapers of major media outlets for information about 9/11. Many have adopted the views of these sources without critical analysis or any outside research. After all, why think for yourself when you can gather your thoughts and opinions from the evening news? In our culture, we have been trained to believe rather than think. The obvious is rejected and the fictitious is accepted. We, the people of this great nation, need to interrupt the transmission of disinformation and demand answers. Do your own research; dig beyond the news presented by the mass media. Although it remains unpopular to ask questions about September 11th, we must summon courage, for, as Thomas Jefferson once said, "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."


  • 22 votes
#1.11 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:54 PM EDT
League

i respectfully disagree, i will give credit that the bush administration knew about this and didn't bother to do anything though, that has been proven. but in order for a demolition to occur is that they would need to drill the explosive in. Make holes in the beams and then place the bombs into those holes.

The issue with that would be there needs to be massive reconstruction, the only time they would have had that chance was about 20 years before 9/11 which would have caused the explosive material to degrade and not have enough power to blow through the metal.

The thing here was that when the explosion occurred, the quantity of fuel from the jets exploded blowing off all the flame resistant material off the beams which then allowed the beams to reach higher temperatures and which not melting them they were severely weakened which caused collapse.

About WTC 7 I am not sure cannot explain that. I think that was the third building the WTC complex plaza to go down.

  • 6 votes
#1.12 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:56 PM EDT
nearing

RKB123:

I suppose this demolition was done in part to justify the Iraq invasion?

Yes, among other reasons.

The questions that arise from looking closely at the events that preceded the attacks are dwarfed by the volumes of unanswered questions about the attackers, the collapse of the buildings, and the financial gains that resulted from the event.When presented with these troubling questions, most Americans will respond, “Do you really think the government would lie to us and deliberately kill innocent Americans for an agenda?” The American invasion of Iraq, an undeclared act of war, began with the claim that Iraq was a threat due to their possession of weapons of mass destruction. It was found that these weapons did not exist and any ties between the 9/11 terrorists and Saddam Hussein were also found false. As of April 2010, more than 31,000 US troops had been seriously injured and over 4,300 soldiers had died.

Unclassified documents reveal that the United States has planned and engaged in a number of false flag attacks throughout recent history. On August 4, 1964, the Vietnamese were accused of engaging in two unprovoked attacks on the USS Maddox in the Gulf of Tonkin. This incident became a pretext for a war that resulted in over 58,000 US soldier deaths. Nearly 140 top-secret documents declassified by the federal government in 2005 revealed that the second Gulf of Tonkin attack, which catalyzed the US into the Vietnam War, never took place. Similarly, in 1898 Spain was accused of destroying the USS Maine. However, evidence is clear that the naval ship was not attacked by Spain but likely exploded due to a coal fire or an external mine. Although the reason for the Maine's explosion was unknown at the time, newspapers and American industrial magnates were quick to blame Spain knowing that a war would likely result, and their financial interests in Cuba would be protected from the Spanish. The propaganda of this time may be best represented by the slogan 'Remember the Maine- To Hell with Spain.'

In 1962, the Pentagon created Operation Northwoods,an effort to build public support for a war against Cuba with the goal of ousting Fidel Castro from power. These plans included destroying a naval ship, hijacking planes, and committing acts of terrorism within US cities that would result in the deaths of innocent citizens. These plans were kept secret for nearly 40 years. Comparably, principals in US foreign policy under the Bush administration created plans in the late 1990s, which clearly stated their intent to invade Iraq for the purpose of "regime change." In their documentation they openly state that the public and Congress would not accept their agenda therefore transition would be slow “absent a catalyzing and catastrophic event like a new Pearl Harbor.”

It is clear that the events of 9/11 opened the door for the degradation of Americans' civil rights, unprecedented intrusions into citizens' private lives, as well as undeclared and unjustified war.

from here

  • 15 votes
#1.13 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:59 PM EDT
RKB123

Why would they place the SAMs in Sarasota if they were the ones blowing up the WTC? To draw mire attention to the conspiracy?

  • 5 votes
#1.14 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:00 AM EDT
nearing

League,

About WTC 7 I am not sure cannot explain that. I think that was the third building the WTC complex plaza to go down.

That's right, it went down at 5 pm that day after being reported as going down already by media outlets BEFORE 5 pm. (I kid you not, you tube has the videos)

It was not hit by a plane.

It went at free-fall speed (for part of the fall) into it's own footprint. That only happens with explosives.

Please read the article.

  • 16 votes
#1.15 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:02 AM EDT
nearing

Why would they place the SAMs in Sarasota

Since I am not the one who did the deed, I cannot answer questions like that. Who know why criminals do some of the things they do?

Never-the-less, it was unprecedented and shows them to have had a head's up.

  • 12 votes
#1.16 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:05 AM EDT
RKB123

So how is it that the government failed to plant a bit if WMD in the Iraqi desert? Did they forget that part of the equation? With all the work the govt put in to the WTC demo you'd think they might have thought to "find" some WMD.

  • 11 votes
#1.17 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:05 AM EDT
RKB123

A heads up to the demolition in New York? Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I could see using the SAM line if someone wanted to try and prove that the govt was more aware of an impending attack, but to try and use the SAMS to prove their complicity in a demo is inane IMO.

  • 5 votes
#1.18 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:08 AM EDT
nearing

RKB123:

So how is it that the government failed

Again, you are asking me to read the minds of criminals. I cannot.

I could see using the SAM line if someone wanted to try and prove that the govt was more aware of an impending attack

That's what I said. They knew it was coming and they lied about it afterward. That makes them complicit. A REAL unbiased investigation would uncover just how much they were complicit or if they were in fact, the perps. At this point, we cannot know that.

  • 14 votes
#1.19 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:09 AM EDT
RKB123

No, I'm asking you to put as much effort into seeing the inconsistencies in your storyline as you have put into convincing others of your opinion. It's an excersise in critical thinking.

  • 13 votes
#1.20 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:16 AM EDT
jeff-852195

Fact: WTC 7 is the "smoking gun" for the whole 9/11 thing.

Fact: WTC 7 was "pulled" by explosives.

Fact: WTC 7 demolition job takes a minimum of 6-8 weeks by professionals.

Fact: Levinson said in a BBC documentary 7 months later they "pulled it".

Fact: WTC 7 was reported "collapsed" a full 22 minutes BEFORE it was in fact collapsed by a live BBC feed that day.

Fact: It would be IMPOSSIBLE to rig that building to explode in one day, ergo

FACT: Our govt was, at the very least, complicit in the deaths of over 3,000 of it's own citizens.

And frankly I don't give a damn how many of you call me a kook, i could care less.

Read about MK ultra, and ask yourself if you think the govt. has actually stopped doing this kind of thing. (And why would they?)

  • 23 votes
#1.21 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:16 AM EDT
RKB123

They knew what was coming? The Saudis? The demo they had planned in NYC? Which is it?

  • 4 votes
#1.22 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:18 AM EDT
JACK DEATH

Fact: WTC 7 is the "smoking gun" for the whole 9/11 thing.

Fact: WTC 7 was "pulled" by explosives.

Fact: WTC 7 demolition job takes a minimum of 6-8 weeks by professionals.

NO it is NOT fact it is YOUR opinion nothing more but, enjoy.

  • 11 votes
#1.23 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:22 AM EDT
nearing

RKB, I have no storyline.

I have major doubts about the inconsistencies and holes in the Official Story.

An investigation may reveal a storyline, but it wouldn't be mine.

Jeff, well said. You have a good grasp of the facts surrounding that day.

  • 12 votes
#1.24 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:26 AM EDT
jeff-852195

@jack

you probably believe the Warren Commission too.

pffttt.

have you even seen the youtube video of Levinson saying "pull it"?

@rkb.

Have you ever heard of the cross-traffic the firemen had on that day? the fire was almost out, yet it fell b/c of the "heat".

i encourage you to listen to those tapes between the firemen, and HQ. It's available online for download.

  • 13 votes
#1.25 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:30 AM EDT
JACK DEATH

Jeff,

Hey sure and the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and ect.

  • 7 votes
#1.26 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:32 AM EDT
RKB123

Yes, you interpret pull it as meaning what? I interpret it as pull it, pull the firemen out because that building with a ten story gash in it is about to collapse.

  • 7 votes
#1.27 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:34 AM EDT
jeff-852195

/rant

it really bugs me the amount of "duh" you have to drink to believe that the govt. DOESN'T do things, really disgusting, immoral, illegal things, to other nations and it's own citizens.

Julius Casar was killed by conspiracy.

And so was Christ.

Nero blamed the jews for the burning of Rome.

we tested nuclear radiation on our own troops.

the gulf of tonkin incident was staged, brought us into vietnam.

mk ultra was a real cia op that lasted over 20 years, where they tested lsd on over 1200 U.S. citizens.

hitler ordered the burning of the Reichstagg.

and you guys just nod and say "Nah, the govt would never do that to us!"

pfftt. they killed a sitting president on national tv ffs.

you say ppl that believe in conspiracies are stupid, i say they never stopped doing it, b/c ppl will never question what the MSM spoonfeeds them.

oh yeah, lets not forget agent orange, or gulf war syndrome, just for @!$%#s and giggles.

  • 21 votes
#1.28 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:39 AM EDT
jeff-852195

I interpret it as pull it, pull the firemen out because that building with a ten story gash in it is about to collapse.

rkb, since when are human beings, referred to as an "it"?

why not "them"?

"it" implies an an inanimate object.

try again.

  • 12 votes
#1.29 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:41 AM EDT
follow the money

speaking of 9/11 security?

None other than President George Bush's younger Brother, marvin....here you go:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911security.html

have a nice day, nearing..

  • 5 votes
#1.30 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:43 AM EDT
JACK DEATH

pfftt. they killed a sitting president on national tv ffs.

Which President was that?

  • 4 votes
#1.31 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:44 AM EDT
jeff-852195

@jack

i mention the warren commission report, and you HAVE to ask that question?

seriously?

you have ZERO credibility jack, you just proved it.

  • 13 votes
#1.32 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:46 AM EDT
JACK DEATH

pfftt. they killed a sitting president on national tv ffs.

That NEVER happen. What networks aired that? NONE that's why. sheez

  • 6 votes
#1.33 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:51 AM EDT
nearing

Very nice addition to the thread, follow the money.

I hope some here will take the time to click your link.

jeff:

seriously?

you have ZERO credibility jack, you just proved it.

Boy, I sure wish we could have rational debates based on the facts about 911 rather than people just coming to prove how ignorant of the facts they really are.

If you are arguing FOR the Official Story, JACK, why not illuminate us with some facts instead of being obtuse?

  • 13 votes
#1.34 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:53 AM EDT
RKB123

Jeff, rather than point out the many fallacies you are relying on to draw your conclusion, I'm going to go beat my head against the wall then kick the dog because my head hurts. All the best.

  • 5 votes
#1.35 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:56 AM EDT
jeff-852195

whatever works for you RKB.

good nite.

  • 6 votes
#1.36 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:00 AM EDT
nearing

rather than point out the many fallacies you are relying on to draw your conclusion, I'm going to go beat my head against the wall then kick the dog

Well, in my book, that's a forfeit.

  • 8 votes
#1.37 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:01 AM EDT
jeff-852195

@ 1.33

sheez yourself, there were ppl there with videorecorders. (obviously) they didn't get all the copies.

the Zapruder tape is one of the most viewed pieces of history of all time.

so my statement stands.

  • 7 votes
#1.38 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:04 AM EDT
RKB123

Your book is right, nearing. Now please don't go and use my refusal to debate jeff as to what pull it meant as more proof of the 9-11 demo conspiracy. Nite nite.

  • 3 votes
#1.39 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:08 AM EDT
nearing

don't go and use my refusal to debate jeff as to what pull it meant as more proof of the 9-11 demo conspiracy

LOL. I wouldn't do that since it's proof, but not of the 911 demo. :~)

  • 4 votes
#1.40 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:11 AM EDT
Synthesis

Annnnd the facts keep coming!

  • 5 votes
#1.41 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:12 AM EDT
JACK DEATH

@ 1.33

sheez yourself, there were ppl there with videorecorders. (obviously) they didn't get all the copies.

the Zapruder tape is one of the most viewed pieces of history of all time.

so my statement stands.

Boy it must be really great to understand technology like you do and be able to make things up and put to use when it was there yet.

the Zapruder tape

There NEVER was a tape. But, there is 8mm film big difference and it is the only footage that exists.

  • 4 votes
#1.42 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:13 AM EDT
jeff-852195

@ jack

wrong again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapruder_film

Though not the only film of the shooting, it has been called the most complete, giving a relatively clear view from a somewhat elevated position, and on the side from which the president's head wound is visible. It was an important part of the Warren Commission hearings and all subsequent investigations of the assassination, and is one of the most studied pieces of film in history. Of greatest notoriety is the film's depiction of a fatal shot to President Kennedy's head when his limousine was almost exactly in front of and slightly below Zapruder's position.

See jack, this is what happens when you actually take the time to look @!$%# up, instead of merely talking it.

  • 10 votes
#1.43 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:19 AM EDT
D DeMilo

I suppose this demolition was done in part to justify the Iraq invasion?

(IMO) more likely to justify the passage of the patriot act - an act that would have been blocked otherwise.

as far as explosive demolition of buildings, videos also support this by showing high velocity exiting debris plumes at lower floors of the building similar to those seen in controlled demolitions. high speed video analysis of available footage shows a shock wave traveling upward from the base (amateur high speed video ?!?).

the war game reffered to was previously a DOD tactical scenario devised by Chaney, Rumsfield and Oliver North. these scenarios are common but it is a bit curious that one would happen so closely followed while it's creators were in the administration.

  • 10 votes
#1.44 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:24 AM EDT
JACK DEATH

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapruder_film

WOW wikipeda!!!

Jeff,

You and Dan Aykroyd's character Darren "Mother" Roskow have a lot in common.

You cannot mix technologies and try and make since sorry it just does not work.

  • 7 votes
#1.45 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:35 AM EDT
The Incredulous One

nearing, the headline is misleading, though it's not yours.

This guy didn't provide any evidence at all. NONE. He offered his opinions. Same old.

"I knew it was an explosive event as soon as I saw it, there was no question in my mind," said Sullivan.

Is he admitting he was part of the conspiracy? How does he "know"? I think he means, it seemed to him that it must be...just by looking at it. Is that part of the evidence, too?

  • 6 votes
#1.46 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:36 AM EDT
nearing

How does he "know"?

By using his expertise in such matters, I presume.

When a seasoned doctor of radiology looks at a radiograph and declares that he knows (with certain conviction) a bone is broke - I tend to take it as fact not just his opinion.

  • 8 votes
#1.47 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:43 AM EDT
nearing

D DeMilo:

(IMO) more likely to justify the passage of the patriot act - an act that would have been blocked otherwise.

Yes, that would probably be number one for Cheney (Darth Vadar himself) but Bush would have begged for the war and got his way after whining. ;~)

  • 8 votes
#1.48 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:51 AM EDT
Solidarity Nite

better analogy - doctor looks at a x-ray says the broken bone was caused by a car crash. another doc says it was falling out of a tree. another one says aliens did it. facts out of context don't and won't make sense even to experts esp if the entire event over all is out side of there expertise.

critical thinking skills!!

Annnnd the facts

what's that about proper spelling snickers? :)

  • 8 votes
#1.49 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:54 AM EDT
nearing

better analogy

Not at all a better analogy, Mr. Sullivan is an expert in Controlled Demolitions, he knows one when he sees one, he isn't opining about who did it.

critical thinking skills!!

Indeed!

  • 7 votes
#1.50 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:30 AM EDT
Solidarity Nite

if only its that simple. just looking at a video of a house burning cant possible tell us if it caught fire on its own or was arson. only an in-depth investigation can do that.

I dont trust the govt my self but the planes were there for every one to see. and the look bush had.. like a deer in head lites. not the look of a guy in on some covert op.

  • 4 votes
#1.51 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:41 AM EDT
nearing

No one is saying the planes didn't hit the buildings.

Physics is measurable. The planes played no part in the collapses.

If you don't want to read the math, scroll down to the summary and conclusion.

  • 7 votes
#1.52 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:58 AM EDT
Solidarity Nite

total respect for your passion & dedication but with respect.. may be agree to disagree.

  • 2 votes
#1.53 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:04 AM EDT
nearing

may be agree to disagree.

Sure.

total respect for your passion & dedication

Thank you kindly.

  • 5 votes
#1.54 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:06 AM EDT
The Incredulous One

nearing #1.11

In the days following 9/11, government officials claimed they never imagined anyone attacking the nation by flying planes into buildings even though warnings of such an event had been given from both within and outside of the US. On August 6, 2001, President Bush was warned by the President's Daily Brief, headlined, "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US."

This is absolutely false though it continues to be repeated. There was no actionable intel in that PDB; it was merely a recap of known history, and detail of what the FBI was doing up to that point. There is absolutely nothing in that PDB that suggests flying planes into buildings.

On that basis, I have to consider everything else in that link as not credible.

  • 6 votes
#1.55 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:44 AM EDT
The Incredulous One

nearing

When a seasoned doctor of radiology looks at a radiograph and declares that he knows (with certain conviction) a bone is broke - I tend to take it as fact not just his opinion.

If that radiologist of yours tells you he know WHY the bone broke, make sure to get a second opinion, expecially if he tells you it was due to cancer, and definitely not a stress fracture. Anyone with half more than half a brain knew at least two things: (1) the building crumbled, (2) it looked just like those controlled demolitions we've all seen before.

Every news person said that's what it looked like.

BUT, it doesn't mean that is what it was.

Sullivan offers his opinion, not about the fact that a building fell, but that controlled demolition was the cause. He offers no evidence.

  • 6 votes
#1.56 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:06 AM EDT
The Incredulous One

nearing, he offers his opinion about the lack of miles of detcord required by claiming that wireless devices could have been used. He offers opinions about thermite being used. But his experience is with CDI, arguably the premier such company in the world, and they do not use wireless devices or thermite in their building take downs. So Sullivan is merely speculating like anyone else might. He has no experience and therefore no credibility on those critical aspects on which he is speculating.

  • 8 votes
#1.57 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:01 AM EDT
Wizeguy

The buildings came down because the cement was watered down. When the towers were being built the mob demanded a nickel ($5) for every bucket (truck load) of cement being delivered. There were mob guys stationed at the entrance to count the trucks everyday. The companies hauling the mud watered it down to make their money back. This made the cement weak, sure it could withstand day to day heat, cold or wind but when you get crashed by a flaming jet it could present a problem.

How's that for a conspiracy?

  • 2 votes
#1.58 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:43 AM EDT
rbrazys

from http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or Douglas DC-8.

Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there. 3
A white paper released on February 3, 1964 states that the Towers could have withstood impacts of jetliners travelling 600 mph -- a speed greater than the impact speed of either jetliner used on 9/11/01.

The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact. "

  • 2 votes
#1.59 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:11 PM EDT
maximillio

The Incredulous One

There was no actionable intel in that PDB

TIO, though I do not agree with the rest of the conspiracy theory Nearing is proposing, what you said is absolutely not true. The PDB made reference to OBL, Washington, New York, airplanes, and training agents in the USA. It was absolutely actionable and it was given to Bush because he WAS SUPPOSED TO ACT. He didn't because he was either lazy or following the GOP playbook of ABC, "Anything But Clinton." The alarm bells were whirring, buzzing, and shrieking that something was about to go down, and Bush could have done several things after reading that memo. Such as step up airport security, which is STILL nothing more than a theater show. Or even COME OFF OF VACATION. Which he was on at the time, and he was on a 5-week vacation during the month before 9/11 happened. Many excuses have been offered for Bush sitting on his hands after the PDB was presented to him, but none of them cut it. He didn't just not do anything, he STAYED ON VACATION. A total dereliction of duty.

Nearing, as far as it being a controlled demolition, the say-so of one guy doesn't cut it. I'm sorry but I don't have any read as to this guy's motivations and his proof cannot be his opinion. The claim that is being made is EXTRAORDINARY. Such a claim requires EXTRAORDINARY evidence.

Such evidence has never been presented.

  • 7 votes
#1.60 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:52 PM EDT
freebirdreaming

Such evidence has never been presented.

the evidence that WAS presented wasn't evidence at all............ one little 'read' for most to consider.

  • 1 vote
#1.61 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:32 PM EDT
nearing

John Former, the Senior Counsel to the 911 Commission said in his book, The Ground Truth (2009),

"The Official version of what has occurred was almost entirely and inexplicably UNTRUE."

  • 7 votes
#1.62 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:44 PM EDT
nearing

max:

Nearing, as far as it being a controlled demolition, the say-so of one guy doesn't cut it. I'm sorry but I don't have any read as to this guy's motivations and his proof cannot be his opinion. The claim that is being made is EXTRAORDINARY. Such a claim requires EXTRAORDINARY evidence.

Such evidence has never been presented.

Max, with all due respect, this seed is but ONE is a looong line of much evidence that the Official Story is a lie. It ought not be seen as standing on it's own.

Please go to the www.ae911truth.org and check it out.

Thank you.

  • 6 votes
#1.63 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:48 PM EDT
upswing

max:

The claim that is being made is EXTRAORDINARY. Such a claim requires EXTRAORDINARY evidence.

Agreed.

And the claim that 3 steel-framed building spontaneously collapsed as a result of two aircraft strikes within hours of each other into their own footprnts is an extraordinary claim.

What evidence -- extraordinary or otherwise -- do you have to support this extraordinary claim?

  • 5 votes
#1.64 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:52 PM EDT
Nick46

This might go on as long as the Kennedy assassination. Heck we are even still discussing Lincoln.

    #1.65 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:10 PM EDT
    freebirdreaming

    and each tiime an event is so entirely surrounded by disinformation, my little heckles go up.... after awhile....... one must really learn.

    • 2 votes
    #1.66 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:49 PM EDT
    Kshark

    I think I will just put this right.........about.......here

    Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Exploding the Myths WTC7

    Now this is one extremely extensive website, with articles, diagrams, videos.

    And maybe I will put this right............about..........eh..........here

    World Trade Center 7 Report Puts 9/11 Conspiracy Theory to Rest ((from the NIST the National Institute of Standards and Technology.))

    GAITHERSBURG, Maryland -- The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has released its long-awaited report on the collapse of World Trade 7 following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "Our take-home message today is that the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told journalists at this morning's press conference in Gaithersburg, Md. "WTC 7 collapsed because of fires fueled by office furnishings. It did not collapse from explosives or from diesel fuel fires."

    Conspiracy theorists have long pointed to the collapse of the 47-story structure as key evidence that the U.S. government orchestrated or abetted the 9/11 attacks. No planes struck the building, and the commonly available views of the exterior didn't show significant damage. Yet, at 5:20 pm, 7 hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers (WTC 1 and 2), WTC 7 rapidly fell in on itself. Since WTC 7 housed Secret Service and CIA offices, conspiracy theorists claimed that the building was destroyed in a controlled demolition in order to obliterate evidence of the U.S. government's complicity in the terrorist attacks. "It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved," stated actress and TV personality Rosie O'Donnell of ABC's The View in March 2007. "For the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible," she said.

    Today's report confirms that a fire was, indeed, the cause. "This is the first time that we are aware of, that a building taller than about 15 stories has collapsed primarily due to fires," Sunder told reporters at the press conference. "What we found was that uncontrolled building fires--similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings--caused an extraordinary event, the collapse of WTC7." The unprecedented nature of the event means that understanding the precise mechanism of the collapse is important not just to answer conspiracy theorists' questions, but to improve safety standards in the engineering of large buildings.

    The final report describes how debris from the collapse of WTC 1 ignited fires on at least 10 floors of WTC 7 at the western half of the south face. Fires on Floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 burned out of control, because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system had failed. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city's water supply. Those water lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and 2. These uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 eventually spread to the northeast part of the building, where the collapse began....

    • 5 votes
    #1.67 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:57 PM EDT
    Dragon1986

    It's not what happened but who benefited that points to the culprit.

    • 1 vote
    #1.68 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:49 PM EDT
    Dave from Iowa

    The whole problem with this gentleman's opinion is never before has a building the size of the towers ever been brought down naturally or with explosives. Until that time his thoughts are just that, thoughts and opinions. I saw an interview with a guy who said, hmmm, looks like the demo boys have been blowing smoke all these years. Straight down is how they come. Wanna tip one a certain direction? Sure, there is the talent.

    • 1 vote
    #1.69 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:19 PM EDT
    Stand up, speak out

    Nearing, I hate being a conspiracy theorist but there is so much information it's tough to totally discount the possibility. The one thing I was absolutely convinced of by RKB before he bowed out though was that he didn't take the time to read the article. Very compelling.

    • 2 votes
    #1.70 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:58 PM EDT
    Dragon1986

    Ok, let's say the official story is correct.

    In early spring of 2001, the taliban nearly eradicated poppy production in Afghanistan. Colin Powell on behalf of Dick Cheney awarded the taliban millions of dollars for their efforts (directly funding terrorism). Later that year 9/11 occurred and the US invaded Afghanistan, post-war poppy/heroin production skyrocketed to become the world leader in heroin and has been ever since.

    So. The US funded the terrorists, remained complacent during the events of 9/11, and invaded a country in order to restart the heroin trade.

    This distraction about which way a building falls is just that. A distraction.

    • 7 votes
    #1.71 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:17 PM EDT
    freebirdreaming

    so is the oil leak.

    tell that to the family and friends of over 3000 people.

    • 2 votes
    #1.72 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:22 PM EDT
    forthefuture-8765309

    Nearing?

    Will you please, please make a list article of the facts that are in the documentary Ring Of Power?

    I think that if you can do that. Which it will be a large task. I think if these folks here that deny any conspiracy could read those facts. They will be dumb founded. Literally blown away.

    If you won't do it. Please let me know here. And I will take the time to write the article. Displaying all these pressing facts.

    I cannot get many folks to watch the movie Ring Of Power. So I feel if they can read it. They may feel differently. (Yes I just repeated myself. But it is needed.)

    • 4 votes
    #1.73 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:37 PM EDT
    The Incredulous One

    maximillio#1.60

    The PDB made reference to OBL, Washington, New York, airplanes, and training agents in the USA. It was absolutely actionable and it was given to Bush because he WAS SUPPOSED TO ACT. He didn't because he was either lazy or following the GOP playbook of ABC, "Anything But Clinton."

    Wrong. Read it yourself. It's declassified. The "alarming" August 6, 2001, PDB to the President is entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US". Here is what it says. You can find a link somewhere online I have no doubt. I am paraphrasing because I am not going to type the whole thing in, but here is what it says paragraph by paragraph, and it is materially identical to the actual PDB. It is essentially a history lesson, and update. That's all. Here it is (my paraphrase):

    1. Since 1997, secret reports, foreign and media say he wants to attack the U.S.

    2. The millennium plot in Cananda in 1999 may have been part of his plan

    3. His attacks in Kenya and Tanzania shows he plans a long time in advance and is not deterred by setbacks.

    4. Al Qaida members have lived and traveled in the U.S. and apparently has a support structure in the U.S.

    5. A clandestine source says Bin Ladin was recruiting Muslim-Americans for attacks.

    6. We have not been able to corroborate all of this, for example, a report from a (redacted) service in 1998 that says Bin Ladin wants to hijack a plane to use to get the blind Sheik released.

    7. There are patterns of activity consistent with preparations for plane hijackings and surveillance of federal buildings.

    8. The FBI is conducting 70 full field investigations that it considers Bin Laden related including a phone call to the Embassy in the UAE in May that some B-L supporters are planning attacks with explosives.

    That's it. That's the big scary PDB. It's 2001. Info of 1997, 1998, 1999 is not actionable. There are no specifics. Virtually all of this was generally known to the educated public, as well as to the Clinton administration. Tell your friends.

    You were saying?

    • 3 votes
    #1.74 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 10:25 AM EDT
    Nasty Liberal

    October 2000, three weeks before America's national election- one which in the event was disputed, and not settled for many days after the casting of votes- USS Cole was attacked and nearly sunk in a Yemeni harbor, with the slaughter of 17 American sailors and many more wounded. The attack was well-timed, if nothing else.

    The incoming Administration treated as though this never happened. I say someone was asleep at the switch.

    • 8 votes
    #1.75 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 7:52 AM EDT
    Brandon-801865

    Nearing, I cannot thank you enough for keeping this issue alive.

    If absolutely nothing else, the collapse of WTC #7 should make any sentient creature rethink the "official account" of what happened on 9/11.

    Kudos, kudos, and more kudos.

    • 11 votes
    #1.76 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 12:10 PM EDT
    Reply
    nearing

    Sullivan emphasized as an aside,<b> “Fire cannot bring down steel-framed high rises -- period.”</b>
    Sullivan stated that he knew from the first day that the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7 on 9/11 was a classic controlled implosion. Asked how he thought it might have been done he posited, “looking at the building it wouldn’t be a problem -- once you gain access to the elevator shafts…then a team of expert loaders would have hidden access to the core columns and beams. The rest can be accomplished with just the right kind of explosives for the job. Thermite can be used as well.”

    Sullivan emphasized as an aside, “Fire cannot bring down steel-framed high rises -- period.”

    Sullivan stated that he knew from the first day that the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7 on 9/11 was a classic controlled implosion. Asked how he thought it might have been done he posited, “looking at the building it wouldn’t be a problem -- once you gain access to the elevator shafts…then a team of expert loaders would have hidden access to the core columns and beams. The rest can be accomplished with just the right kind of explosives for the job. Thermite can be used as well.”

    • 11 votes
    #2 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:57 PM EDT
    Jrb-x

    Fire cannot bring down steel-framed high rises, but two big f****** big planes full of jet fuel certainly can. Stop ignoring the fact that huge planes hit the buldings. It's not like a fire was set off inside and the buildings collapsed.

    • 6 votes
    #2.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:33 AM EDT
    reknight1

    Huge planes have crashed into buildings before. The result: the buildings burned for days, but not one collapsed. Did you notice the orderly way these buildings collapsed?

    • 11 votes
    #2.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:38 AM EDT
    nearing

    jrb-x:

    Stop ignoring the fact that huge planes hit the buldings

    Who is ignoring it?

    Do you think these Architects & Engineers have ignored it?

    See #3 & 4 of second part.

    As seen in this revealing photo, the Twin Towers' destruction exhibited all of the characteristics of destruction by explosives:

    1. Destruction proceeds through the path of greatest resistance at nearly free-fall acceleration
    2. Improbable symmetry of debris distribution
    3. Extremely rapid onset of destruction
    4. Over 100 first responders reportedexplosions and flashes
    5. Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally
    6. Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking
    7. Massive volume of expandingpyroclastic-like clouds
    8. 1200-foot-dia. debris field: no "pancaked" floors found
    9. Isolated explosive ejections 20 – 40 stories below demolition front
    10. Total building destruction: dismemberment of steel frame
    11. Several tons of molten metal found under all 3 high-rises
    12. Evidence of thermite incendiariesfound by FEMA in steel samples
    13. Evidence of explosives found in dust samples
    14. No precedent for steel-framed high-rise collapse due to fire

    And exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e.

    1. Slow onset with large visible deformations
    2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, intact, from the point of plane impact, to the side most damaged by the fires)
    3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
    4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never "collapsed"

    ____________________________

    Conclusion (after mathematical and physics equations worked out by these experts): The jet fuel fires played almost no role in the collapse of the World Trade Center.

    • 13 votes
    #2.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:46 AM EDT
    Solidarity Nite

    Huge planes have crashed into buildings before. The result: the buildings burned for days, but not one collapsed. Did you notice the orderly way these buildings collapsed?

    there was a plane crash in amsterdamn which totally took out the chunk of apartment building it hit.. look it up. the wtc were built diff and once the supports failed the whole thing flopped down. thats prob why not more buildings are out there like that

    • 2 votes
    #2.4 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:06 AM EDT
    nearing

    once the supports failed the whole thing flopped down

    Those (the twins) buildings didn't flop. They fell straight down into their own footprint (into the path of most resistance) near free-fall acceleration.

    WTC7 did the same but actually was at free-fall for the first 100 feet and wasn't hit by a plane.

    Watch short clip. and, please, read post #2.3 and click on those links!!

    • 7 votes
    #2.5 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:13 AM EDT
    Solidarity Nite

    wtc 7 was hit by a lot of debris.. see this photo.. I'm no expert so I thought the collapse was weird until I read the report by Arthur Scheuerman FDNY battalion chief. looked around for a discussion he had about this here says it best

    Well I would say after having read practically all the "stories" that there is no official story. My book "Fire in the Skyscraper" has several conflicts with NIST's, and FEMA's reports.

    How do you suppose that the Conspirators knew that Building 7 would be hit by pieces of Tower 1 and set on fire? They would have to know this beforehand in order to set the charges. Why did they wait 5 hours until most fires died down to set off these supposed charges, and how did these supposed charges withstand the fires for 5 hours without igniting? How come the computer models show steel beam, thermal sagging and disconnection from the columns due thermal contraction of the beams due to the fires in Building 7?

    How come the, A&E, 9/11 truthers never mention Building 5. Did building 5 which had a serious fire on many floors and had several floors collapse from the steel beams being disconnected from the columns due to thermal sagging and catinary action tearing out the bolted beam connections. (ASCE, Building Performance Study) I propose that the truthers never even read the BPS or NIST’s report. Did building 5 also have charges set beforehand? How many other buildings had charges set beforehand and were never set off? If they went to all the trouble to rig all these buildings with explosives, why didn’t they just set them off and forget the planes.

    There are so many unanswerable questions that it is ludicrous to continue the proposition that explosives had to be employed to collapse these buildings.

    • 5 votes
    #2.6 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:36 AM EDT
    nearing

    WTC7 --

    Debris didin't cause it to fall symmetrically at free-fall speed into it's own footprint *the path of most resistance).

    WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise not hit by an airplane, exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives:

    1. Rapid onset of "collapse"
    2. Sounds of explosions at ground floor - a second before the building's destruction
    3. Symmetrical "structural failure" -- through the path of greatest resistance --at free-fall acceleration
    4. Imploded, collapsing completely, and landed in its own footprint
    5. Massive volume of expandingpyroclastic dust clouds
    6. Several tons of molten metal reported by numerous highly-qualified witnesses
    7. Chemical signature of thermite (high tech incendiary) found in solidified molten metal, and dust samples
    8. FEMA finds rapid oxidation andintergranular melting on structural steel samples
    9. Expert corroboration from the top European Controlled Demolition professional
    10. Fore-knowledge of "collapse" by media, NYPD, FDNY

    And exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e.

    1. Slow onset with large visible deformations
    2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires)
    3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
    4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never "collapsed".

    • 7 votes
    #2.7 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:01 AM EDT
    kiml

    Having read this far. I agree with nearing. It was a Bush conspiracy. I can give other reasons where they have conspired to changed the world. R-410 is one. The carlyle group has too much power.

    • 6 votes
    #2.8 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:28 AM EDT
    The Incredulous One

    nearing #2.7

    9. Jowenko. This is ridiculous. He clearly was unfamiliar with the facts of WTC7, and is being led by the interviewer. He thought the building fell after 9/11 and that therefore 30-40 men could have relatively quickly set cutting charges to bring down the building. He also correctly points out that the building did not fall cleanly into its own footprint but put lots of debris onto the neighboring building. The interviewer then misleads him again. He never gets to see the 20 stories of gashed building; never learns of huge diesel tanks and fires burning for 7 hours. Oops.

    Finally, Jowenko does NOT believe WTC1&2 were taken down by CD. You don't seem eager to use him as your expert for those buidlings. Why not?

    • 4 votes
    #2.9 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:41 AM EDT
    The Incredulous One

    nearing #2.3

    6. pulverized concrete: are you seriosly suggesting that the explosives (with thermite cutting to "weaken" the structure) did not merely blow out structural components to cause the collapse but were enough to pulverize the concrete? What the hell for? Makes no sense. What pulverized concrete was the energy of the falling buildings.

    • 3 votes
    #2.10 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:48 AM EDT
    GraveMind

    ... LoL... I think,

    I can never tell when people are being sarcastic.

    lets lighten things up with some laughs:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1WXNarki9Q&feature=channel

    7 video's total

    enjoy.

    • 2 votes
    #2.11 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:23 PM EDT
    maximillio

    Sullivan emphasized as an aside, “Fire cannot bring down steel-framed high rises -- period.”

    This isn't proof. This is the opinion of one guy. Is he an expert on arson? Has he ever tried to bring down a high-rise with fire? No, he hasn't.

    His evidence is his word, and that's not good enough.

    • 2 votes
    #2.12 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:53 PM EDT
    freebirdreaming

    In many other aspects of life...... say your mechanic, or your bank teller, or your child's school teacher, you accept their 'expertise' instride....... and i might add that the odds of mediocrity are higher in those areas of ones life....... but this person's 'experience' is totally questioned?????????

    try again.

    • 2 votes
    #2.13 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:34 PM EDT
    upswing

    Kshark

    #1.67

    You are so behind the times with the NIST report etc.

    Not even NIST stands by its own report now.

    (See NIST's disclaimer #4)

    And the NIST report, which is a blatant bunch of horsesh*t, stops at the point when the buildings start to fall ...

    You obviousl have a lot of research and reading to do to get yourself current on the status of the 9/11 "story."

    Did you know that NIST didn't even check for explosives, even though doing so is a standard part of ANY building fre investigation?

    • 8 votes
    #2.14 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:41 PM EDT
    The Incredulous One

    Not even NIST stands by its own report now.

    Put up or, well, you know the rest.

    • 2 votes
    #2.15 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 11:18 AM EDT
    TBone

    They'd sure have a hard time standing by it now...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP9Qp5QWRMQ

    • 1 vote
    #2.16 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 9:58 PM EDT
    nearing

    TBone, is it just a problem with my computer or are you having a problem getting that video to play?

    • 1 vote
    #2.17 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 10:23 PM EDT
    upswing

    Incredulous 1:

    Not even NIST stands by its own report now.

    Put up or, well, you know the rest.

    I already did.

    (See NIST's disclaimer #4)

    Obviously you are pretending to have read the NIST report when you never have, otherwise you would know what the sentence above refers to. ,...

    How very sad hat you would stoop to such pathetic deciet...

    An empty vessel ...

    Well, you know the rest.

    • 3 votes
    #2.18 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 10:27 PM EDT
    The Incredulous One

    Obviously you are pretending to have read the NIST report when you never have, otherwise you would know what the sentence above refers to. ,...

    Not only have I read the NIST report forwards and backwards and inside out and followed the updates over time as they occurred, but I understood it. You do not understand what you read.

    YOU do not understand what you read, and why Disclaimer #4 has nothing at all to do with NIST not standing by its own report.

    How very sad hat you would stoop to such pathetic deciet...

    Stop bull@!$%#ting. I called your bluff, and you can begin your typical weaseling. You didn't understand what you read, that's all.

    For your benefit, and others who might like to know, Disclaimer #4 says only that despite the various codes that constructing the WTC would have legally been required to conform to, NIST could not verify in all cases whether the construction conformed with the codes because the buildings were destroyed. But, they continue to say, if you read a report or investigation of theirs that says there was compliance with code, it is due to the fact that they had documentary or anecdotal evidence, or they independently conducted their own tests to confirm compliance with a code.

    Now, maybe, you understand it, and how asserting that NIST does not stand by its own report is pure nonsense. Get it?

    • 1 vote
    #2.19 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 3:36 AM EDT
    upswing

    Incredulous 1:

    This:

    YOU do not understand what you read, and why Disclaimer #4 has nothing at all to do with NIST not standing by its own report.

    strongly suggests that this:

    Not only have I read the NIST report forwards and backwards and inside out and followed the updates over time as they occurred, but I understood it. You do not understand what you read.

    is just the latest in a long line of incredulous lies.

    Stop bull@!$%#ting. I called your bluff, and you can begin your typical weaseling. You didn't understand what you read, that's all.

    More incredulous lying. (By the way: How is someone who cites a reference to what he says "bluffing"? ...)

    Now, maybe, you understand it, and how asserting that NIST does not stand by its own report is pure nonsense. Get it?

    Why is it that the Viners who are consistently and publicly wrong are always the first to irrationally go ballistic? Probably something about being embarrassed in public, I suppose.

    Yell and scream all you want, it's not going to change the obvious fact that you are patently unable to comephend what you read, and that your posts are rife with incredulous lying abou what you have and have not done.

    (How long did it take you to Google "Disclaimer #4"? Be honest, now... ;-))

    Have fun yelling and insulting. It's surely what you do best.

    I'll leave the obvious intent of Disclaimer #4 to those who can read and comprehend what they read at the same time.

    • 9 votes
    #2.20 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 12:32 PM EDT
    Straight Talk

    Why is it that the Viners who are consistently and publicly wrong are always the first to irrationally go ballistic?

    Because of their bias!

    • 4 votes
    #2.21 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 1:08 PM EDT
    upswing

    Straight Talk:

    Because of their bias!

    Have to agree with that one ...

    • 4 votes
    #2.22 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 1:25 PM EDT
    TBone

    Don't know nearing? It still works for me. It is the video of the high-school physics class that found major flaws in the NIST report using common and open-source physics tools. Pretty much rendering the NIST report the tripe that it is...

    • 5 votes
    #2.23 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 4:42 PM EDT
    nearing

    Thank, TBone, I think it's my computer, I will restart it.

    I have seen that video before though - it's terrific

    • 5 votes
    #2.24 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 5:10 PM EDT
    The Incredulous One

    upswing:

    Why is it that the Viners who are consistently and publicly wrong are always the first to irrationally go ballistic? Probably something about being embarrassed in public, I suppose.

    I don't know. Why is that? WTF are you babbling about? Embarrassed? Ballistic? I called your bluff, that's all. No need to get so offended. Geez, you'd think you hadn't pulled this bull@!$%# often enough that you'd know how to handle it by now. You should get used to it. Calm down. It's not the end of the world, even in your situation.

    Chuck, I know you. Just go crank up Dr. Phil on the TiVO and relax.

    Remember, you said: Not even NIST stands by its own report now.

    That wasn't all that long ago. I asked you to put up or shut up, and you didn't do either.

    NIST certainly stands by its report. Do you seriously expect people to believe they don't?

    Disclaimer #4? You didn't understand what you read, that's all. No need to get yourself all worked up.

    Here's Disclaimer #4: It's what I said in #2.19

    Disclaimer #4 says only that despite the various codes that constructing the WTC would have legally been required to conform to, NIST could not verify in all cases whether the construction conformed with the codes because the buildings were destroyed. But, they continue to say, if you read a report or investigation of theirs that says there was compliance with code, it is due to the fact that they had documentary or anecdotal evidence, or they independently conducted their own tests to confirm compliance with a code.

    That's it.

    Q: Hey, NIST, can you confirm that the entire construction of the WTC met all the building codes? A: sorry, no. It's cause the buidling was destroyed. But when our report says something complied with code, it's because we tested it ourself, or we had documents that showed it.

    Naturally, in the wild and whacky world of Chuck upswing, this means NIST does not stand by its report. Uh, here's our report on the Titanic sinking, but we can't confirm X,Y,Z because the frigging thing is under water.

    Newsflash from upshwing: They don't stand behind Titanic report.

    Whacky, huh? Oh, well, what can you do?

    Here's from the report.

    Disclaimer No.4

    NIST takes no position as to whether the design or construction of a WTC building was compiant with any code, since, due to the destruction of the WTC buildings, NIST could not verify he actual (or as-built) consturcion, the properties and condition of the materials used, or changes to the original construction made over the life of the buildings. In addition, NIST could not verify the interpretations of codes used by applicable authorities in determining compliance when implementing buidling codes. Where an investigation report states whether a system was designed or installed as reuired by a code provision, NIST has documentary or anecdotal evidence indicating whether the requirement was met, or NIST has independently conducted tests or analyses indicating whether the requirement was met.

    Like I said.

    • 2 votes
    #2.25 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 12:08 PM EDT
    Dragon1986

    Like I said.

    And like I said, READ POST 1.71. This whole thing is a diversionary tactic, making upswing work so frivolously on a dead end endeavor. Follow the @!$%#ing money. @!$%#.

    • 1 vote
    #2.26 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 12:37 PM EDT
    Dragon1986

    Here's something you can't debunk Incurious One.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhkeU64xXpw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ4dY5rFxSs&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl1-ImRxNkc&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cx0P2rpVk4&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE5vlODEcfs&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHG70VwCJ_M&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fUkEtyUgRE&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_XHjEXZBOA&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTFD1Fgmjl4&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln5cyHcy7jk&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK-yC7WiUw4&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlqkRgjeyyw&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32vNURJFpgY&feature=related

    • 1 vote
    #2.27 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 12:45 PM EDT
    upswing

    TBone:

    Don't know nearing? It still works for me. It is the video of the high-school physics class that found major flaws in the NIST report using common and open-source physics tools. Pretty much rendering the NIST report the tripe that it is...

    And NIST is supposed to be the premiere forensic enineering body in the US ...

    It's hard for me tobeliev that NIST isn't aware o the ridiculousness of its report -- indeed, the fact that it won't even stand by its own findings suggests that it does know how ridiculoous those findings are.

    From what I understand, the Architects and Engineers for Truth group is planning to file suit against NIST or one of its employees for, essentially, knowingly telling such huge lies in its report.

    I wonder if NIST will call the editor of Popular Mechanics as an expert witness! :-)

    • 7 votes
    #2.28 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 1:07 PM EDT
    jeff-852195

    This reminds me of the first report given by the Warren Commission that JFK was killed by a drunk driver.

    -Robert Dinero, "Wag the Dog"

    • 2 votes
    #2.29 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 2:55 PM EDT
    Reply
    rose-231178

    May I state one more thing?

    Thanks.

    With what, 5000 or more so people in a building, Who is really going to know who is whom?

    • 5 votes
    Reply#3 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:02 PM EDT
    nearing

    Who is really going to know who is whom?

    Precisely.

    • 9 votes
    #3.1 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:07 PM EDT
    The Incredulous One

    nearing, nearing, nearing #2.3, puhlease

    1. the video does not show free fall of the building. It purports to show some wave traveling down the building relative to a free falling piece of debris. Unfortunately, the is a piece of something that has aerodynamic properties and most likely twists and turns, and slows down and speeds up as different faces face air resistance as we've seen in many videos. Look at any video of the collapses and it's obvious that much debris and building columns actually fall faster than the building i.e. the building falls slower than free fall.

    Wow, thermite AND explosives? These FBI, CIA, Mossad, whoever conspirators really like living dangerously, trying to synchronize unnecessary explosions (you are using thermite to cut the steel, aren't you?) so they don't blow the thermite off, and do this to correspond to the impact of crashing airliners. What do you need the airliners for? Just blow the building at your convenience. You could even fabricate a threat or a demand, and when the demand isn't met, kaboom. In the 1993 attack there were no airliners.

    And why go to the extreme and difficult step of ensuring the buildings collapse straight down? Why not just plant explosives somewhere near the bottom floors, and let the buildings come down as they might? Were they afraid someone might get hurt?

    Oh, I know, they need airplanes to crash as a pretext for invading Iraq. Really? So why the hell are the planes hijakced by Saudis? Couldn't the CIA, Mossad and Dick Cheney forge Iraqi ID's and passports and videos just as easily? Make the hijackers Iraqis and you're in business.

    • 9 votes
    #3.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:31 AM EDT
    nearing

    TIO, are you a building engineer? An architect?

    • 3 votes
    #3.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:50 PM EDT
    Nick46

    With what, 5000 or more so people in a building, Who is really going to know who is whom?

    There were 50,000 employees. And if you don't work for the same company the odds are that you won't know others in the building.

    • 1 vote
    #3.4 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:48 PM EDT
    The Incredulous One

    nearing #3.3

    TIO, are you a building engineer? An architect?

    Are you offering me a job? Is that your response to #3.2?

    I'm a scientist with a Ph.D. in Applied Physics and three decades experience in research and applications work in academia, contract research organizations, for public and private companies and for the govt.

    What field is your doctorate in?

    Did you ever look at the credentials of the NIST people, contractors, consultants, organizations who actually worked on this? It is very impressive and substantial.

    Did you ever look at the credentials of those Architects and Engineers who signed a petition because they thought something looked fishy to them while staring at a TV or computer screen? Among the handful who might be said to have the proper training and/or experience the list of people is populated by landscape architects, and people who have designed shopping malls and residential housing...real "experts". The engineers include electrical and mechanical engineers who are also non-experts. They are curious, that's all. Same as anyone else who can't believe it happened. I can't believe it. But it did.

    And what data have these people looked at? Ans. Nothing or as close to nothing that you couldn't tell the difference. I'm familiar with the Steve Jones crowd and the Danish "nanothermite" dubious reseach...pls. don't send me the links. Entirely inconclusive with plausible alternative explanations.

    NIST employed people with expertise over a wide range of required specialties of physics, metallurgy, materials, structural mechanics, computational analysis, computer simulation, and subspecialites related to buliding construction, and fire. They interviewed 1000 people. They looked at thousands of pieces of video, thousands of photographs from 185 photographers. They had to invent new software for the unprecedentedly complicated simulations. They examined hundreds of steel samples. They did lab experiments to examine metals and materials and fire spreading.

    You think these people are part of a conspiracy? Or incompetent. You serious? As opposed to an army of YouTubers poised with rulers and stopwatches to measure "free fall"? Really?

    Nothing of these conspiracy beliefs makes sense, from beginning to end, and afterwards. Nothing. And the secrecy necessary before, during, after? Does one have to be a scientist to know it's absurd? No one, but no one comes forward as taking part in some small way, never mind the big movers and shakers who made it happen. Somebody? Somewhere? The wife of a boyfriend of a guy who knows someone? Nothing? Someone who thought it funny how palettes of something, somewhere, sometime were being moved into the building? Nothing? A truck driver maybe, whose sister wondered what those weird pickup and deliveries were for? No one who sold lots of detcord, or wireless detonators to a new customer? Nothing? No one, not a single person has come forward to a govt committee, to a blog, to a magazine, to a TV show, to an investigative reporter itching to expose the whole thing? No one who was involved in even the least significant way themselves comes forward? No one with a conscience who just can't take it any more and has to reveal the whole thing that took three thousand lives before he/she goes nuts?

    Really? @!$%#ing really? And you expect me to believe it?

    • 5 votes
    #3.5 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 1:31 PM EDT
    forthefuture-8765309

    This is great. This is Epic.

    I'm on the edge of my un-educated seat reading these posts. I can only read them. Hence this uneducated comment. But I'd say this is ... what round 16? In a battle of about 40 rounds.

    I'm scared to try and put up a score card. Am I even intelligent enough to score?

    • 2 votes
    #3.6 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 1:15 PM EDT
    Reply
    Simplistic Reality

    The conspiracy theories are never going to stop... just like Roswell, JFK, Elvis, and all the other ones. They all b.s. It's like the X-Files... some people just "I Want To Believe" even if it is complete hogwash. It's more interesting that way or something. Every conspiracy theory regarding WTC has been proved false by anyone with a brain. This one will soon be as well. :D

    • 11 votes
    #4 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:15 PM EDT
    nearing

    some people just "I Want To Believe"

    Who in their right mind would want to believe that their government lied and is covering up a mass murder?

    Every conspiracy theory regarding WTC has been proved false by anyone with a brain

    Maybe mice brains, but we with human brains have listened to the experts and see the Official Story doesn't hold water.

    Cripes, go read the damn article or don't bother wasting everyone's time.

    • 11 votes
    #4.1 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
    Synthesis

    They all b.s.

    If they all b.s., what - specifically - is incorrect regarding this one. Specifically.

    • 4 votes
    #4.2 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:37 PM EDT
    Simplistic Reality

    If this is a serious question.. I'll try and answer it in depth when I get off work tomorrow and have the time too. Sigh.

    • 4 votes
    #4.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:13 AM EDT
    Soval-1219303

    Who in their right mind would want to believe that their government lied and is covering up a mass murder?

    Why don't you ask yourself that, as you are the one who is so determined to believe those very things. Maybe you ought to spend some time examining your own motives and beliefs that led you to those conclusions, rather than just denouncing* those that don't believe as you do.

    Your and Mr. Sullivan's unwillingness to consider that your conclusions and beliefs may be wrong is a major obstacle to having a serious discussion on the merits of these claims. We can't get anywhere if you are unwilling to accept challenges to the way you see thing.

    *or demonizing:

    Maybe mice brains, but we with human brains have listened to the experts and see the Official Story doesn't hold water.

    Cripes, go read the damn article or don't bother wasting everyone's time.

    • 5 votes
    #4.4 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:47 AM EDT
    nearing

    Soval:

    Maybe you ought to spend some time examining your own motives and beliefs that led you to those conclusions, rather than just denouncing* those that don't believe as you do.

    Your and Mr. Sullivan's unwillingness to consider that your conclusions and beliefs may be wrong is a major obstacle to having a serious discussion on the merits of these claims. We can't get anywhere if you are unwilling to accept challenges to the way you see thing.

    I would have you take a good look at your own motives.

    I know physics and so does Mr. Sullivan. The laws and the fact that the Official Story do not conform to them were all the motive that I needed. No emotion - just basic scientific facts.

    And you?

    • 6 votes
    #4.5 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:54 AM EDT
    Zenkarma

    simplistic i can't imagine you've gone through your whole life believing everything ppl (govermnent) tells you? regardless of whether dem/repub is the prez i certainly don't believe everything they tell me. actually if 9/11 happened in the first year of obama's prez i wonder how many republ would entertain conspiracy theories themselves? they've already created one "the liberal blew up the bp oil rig to get the cap n trade passed' and fema camps

    as far as 9/11- i'm very interested in why bldg 7 holding the SEC files went down as it was 2 blocks from the other targets- also why do we not have black box recording transcripts- i watched a doc about the 9/11 wives that formed their own 'commission' and it's pretty compelling as well. bush sitting in the class reading 'prez for dummies' for 8 mins after secret service told him about the planes didn't make his case any better

    conspiracy theory is really just another way of entertaining new angles to come up with a different solution that may be viable

    • 5 votes
    #4.6 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:08 AM EDT
    Soval-1219303

    Starting off with a deflection is not helping you.

    I know physics

    Doubtful, but even if you have some knowledge of physics, that does not make you an expert or capable of assessing the scientific facts and claims surrounding 9/11. The elevation of lay "knowledge" possessed by themselves and other like minded individuals as a credible source of information (and certainty) is one of the underling characteristics of conspiratorial thinking. It's also an illegitimate approach to analyzing evidence.

    and so does Mr. Sullivan

    Mr. Sullivan has an opinion, but it does not make his claims correct. Furthermore, it is difficult to fully assess his qualifications to, and credibility in, making those claims. It's pretty clear that he has a set, unquestionable ideology regarding 9/11, and him being "an employee of the leading firm in this field" does not inform us at all about how qualified or credible he is in arriving at those conclusions.

    The laws... No emotion - just basic scientific facts.

    The attempt to universalize personally held opinions and beliefs is another tell-tale tactic of conspiracism and pseudo-science. By attributing one's own opinions to notions beyond themselves (in this case the laws of physics), they try and assume a greater level of credibility than they actually have, and at the same time convince us that their opinions are not really theirs, but unequivocal conclusions that one cannot help but to come to and accept. That doesn't, however, make them so.

    and the fact that the Official Story do not conform to them were all the motive that I needed.

    Another conspiracist classic. Any flaws, disagreements, or unanswered questions in the much maligned "official story" is seen as a confirmation of the validity of the conspiratorial claims. Any and all of them. It is simply assumed that it's the dings (real or imagined) to the mainstream explanations for what happened that make their views irrefutably true.

    The fact that you tout your oppositionalism to the "official story" reveals the binary, ideologically driven worldview that drives you and your fellow conspiracists. It is those beliefs and ways of seeing the world that drove you to the accept the conspiracy, not the conspiracy that lead you to those beliefs.

    The ideological beliefs that drive Conspiracy Theories are always blatantly on display, and belie they supposed search for truth and accuracy they claim to be seeking.

    • 3 votes
    #4.7 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:00 AM EDT
    nearing

    Soval, got any facts? Some evidence? Some equations that can refute what these engineers have put together?

    Until then, you are wasting my time with your snarkiness.

    • 8 votes
    #4.8 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:51 PM EDT
    Soval-1219303

    It's pretty sad Nearing, that you are so unwilling accept criticism or examine your own assumptions and beliefs. If you can never admit that you could be wrong, then you will never be taken seriously.

    • 1 vote
    #4.9 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 4:51 AM EDT
    upswing

    Soval:

    It's pretty sad Nearing, that you are so unwilling accept criticism or examine your own assumptions and beliefs. If you can never admit that you could be wrong, then you will never be taken seriously.

    This is a non secquitur.

    Your analysis of nearing's response does NOTHING to impeach any claim she has made, nor does it support your bald claim that nearing is reistant to learning new things.

    It also fails to offer any evidence to support what appears to be your foundational claim: that the ridiculous official Box Cutter Conspiracy Theory is true.

    If you have an argument the rebuts nearing's clearly itemised and specified claims and assertions, then, personally, as someone interested in the topic, I'd welcome your recounting of that argument.

    But you don't seem to have that kind of rhetorical ammunition available to you.

    All you have is what amounts to an irrelevant and highly subjective and sweeping critique of what you perceive to be nearing's universal resistance to learning new things.

    The problem is, you are offering her nothing new to learn.

    This makes your claim that she is resistant to learning new things nothing more than an unsupported bald statement.

    Maybe I'm missing something here, so:

    Specifically, what new infomation are you offering in #4.7 or #4.9 that you feel nearing is resistant to learning?

    Thanks.

    • 5 votes
    #4.10 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 9:40 AM EDT
    TBone

    #4.9 - please answer the questions or admit that you can not but do not attack the person who asks you for more information. Reported as no-value.

    Ontopic - The SDR will be the new global currency proving that we are, indeed headed for globalization. The only thing that makes sense out of 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, NKorea, China and, now, the saddest of all, the gulf disaster. The IMF cause the ruination of small banks by making untenable restrictions. Until you understand these motivations, nothing you do or say will make any sense.

    • 3 votes
    #4.11 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 10:25 AM EDT
    Soval-1219303

    This is a non secquitur.

    Considering that in my initial post I asked Nearing to examine her own zealous convictions and consider that her unquestioned views may at times be wrong, and that she subsequently made it clear that she has no intention of doing so, it is far from a non sequitur, it is exactly on target.

    It also fails to offer any evidence to support what appears to be your foundational claim: that the ridiculous official Box Cutter Conspiracy Theory is true.

    Official... Box cutter... what? I don't recall ever mentioning that (whatever the heck that is) or in any way presenting any opinions whatsoever on what transpired on 9/11, but thank you for again demonstrating the arguing tactics of the conspiracy minded:

    1) Black and White, polarized extremes of opinion. If you are not with us, you are against us and with them, if you do not agree with us, you believe something crazy or dangerous or foolish.

    2) Deception and mischaracterization. People who don't agree with you are characterized as having extreme or unpalatable views. They are accused of making claims they never made, holding views they have never held, and supporting positions that they never professed to support, all in an attempt to dismiss --and feel superior to-- those who do not agree with their ideology.

    3) The false belief that any perceived failure of the "official story" automatically validates the views and claims of the conspiracy theorists, and proves that those who don't agree with them are fools.

    I could go on and on.

    nor does it support your bald claim that nearing is reistant to learning new things... what you perceive to be nearing's universal resistance to learning new things... This makes your claim that she is resistant to learning new things

    No where did I claim that Nearing is "resistant to learning new things," another distortion of on you part of what I am saying. It is pretty clear however, that at least on the subject of 9/11, she has not shown any willingness to accept information that does not fit her existing beliefs. She is more than willing to accept anything that does though, without any apparent doubt or questioning, and it is those biases that make her and her fellow conspiracists difficult to have an honest discussion with.

      #4.12 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 8:41 PM EDT
      Socrates1

      Soval, I might be more willing to see your point if the same was not true regarding those who do accept the "official" version. Conspiracy theories almost become inevietable when valid questions are simply dismissed. I suggest that this is one of those cases. If the answers are so simple, why not make the case, rather than dismissing those who ask the questions? I don't simply direct this towards you, but more towards those in power. I follow that up by suggesting that simply suggesting one has answered the questions while in reality not doing so further inflames the situation.

      There is also the problem of how many unanswered questions there are regarding a particular situation. I would suggest that "Building 7" seems to have not just one area which requires additional clarification, but several. It doesn't seem to me to be that outrageous to wonder what happened in light of the following questions.

      1. Why was it reported collapsed prior to collapse.

      2. Why did it collapse, unlike other buildings in the area, and without most of the factors associated with the other two buildings?

      3. Why were the "records" lost?

      4. How did "office fires" generate temperatures of such a degree to cause steel to melt?

      5. Why didn't it topple as various parts of the structure failed rather than dropping straight down?

      6. Why doesn't the official investigation answer these questions in a reasonable fashion?

      7. With this type of disaster, shouldn't all questions be answered to avoid similar disasters in the future?

      When we can spend thousands of dollars on sexual mating habits of some obscure species and God knows what else, doesn't this rate as a valid subject of inquiry?

      • 4 votes
      #4.13 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 10:11 PM EDT
      nearing

      Socrates1 talking to Soval:

      If the answers are so simple, why not make the case, rather than dismissing those who ask the questions? I don't simply direct this towards you

      I would direct that towards Soval.

      Thank you for your very poignantly relevant questions, too, Socrates.

      Soval, upswing said it better than I could I #4.10. You have said one thing to refute what the article says, why would anyone take your criticisms seriously until you do?

      And at this point I would like to point out that my opinion doesn't really matter all that much anyway.

      But, this man's opinion means a hell of a lot.

      _________________________________

      John Former, the Senior Counsel to the 911 Commission said in his book, The Ground Truth (2009),

      "The Official version of what has occurred was almost entirely and inexplicably UNTRUE."

      _________________________________

      You want to question his motives, Soval?

      • 2 votes
      #4.14 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 10:28 PM EDT
      Soval-1219303

      Soval, I might be more willing to see your point if the same was not true regarding those who do accept the "official" version.

      So you won't do the reasonable thing of analyzing beliefs, and not simply accepting or rejecting things based upon your own personal ideology, because others are not doing it?

      Be the change you wish to see in the world.

      Conspiracy theories almost become inevietable when valid questions are simply dismissed.

      Again I reiterate, the fact that there may be doubts or questions on a subject neither justifies nor validates any conspiracy theories.

      If the answers are so simple

      They aren't, that is what the conspiracists prey upon. The facts are complex, there are many different opinions, lots of legitimate debate, and we will never have all the answers, and that is exploited by people with certain beliefs to distort, disparage, and misrepresent information.

      why not make the case, rather than dismissing those who ask the questions?

      Conspiracy theorists always hide behind "we're just asking questions" as a justification for their standardless acceptance of conspiracy theories and rejection of facts that don't fit their preferred ideological beliefs.

      My issue is not just with one conspiratorial claim or another, but the entire methodology and mindset of the conspiracy minded.

      • 1 vote
      #4.15 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 3:42 AM EDT
      upswing

      Soval:

      Considering that in my initial post I asked Nearing to examine her own zealous convictions and consider that her unquestioned views may at times be wrong

      ...Which is a non-secquitur ... Where in the seed are nearing's views mentioned?

      Referencing your own initial irrelevant comment does not make either the referenced of the refering comment relevant, now, does it?

      Official... Box cutter... what? I don't recall ever mentioning that (whatever the heck that is) or in any way presenting any opinions whatsoever on what transpired on 9/11, but thank you for again demonstrating the arguing tactics of the conspiracy minded:

      So you deliberately post to a thread that offers as its topic the challenge to the official Box Cutter Conspiracy Theory a comment that has nothing to do with that subject...

      Hmmm... Why would you do that, unless you are seeking to derail the thread?

      RE: Your "points" 1, 2 and 3.

      What are you talking about?

      I could go on and on.

      Oh, I'm sure you could ... But why do you want to? Wouldn't you rather discuss the topic at hand?

      This

      No where did I claim that Nearing is "resistant to learning new things,"

      directly contradict this

      It is pretty clear however, that at least on the subject of 9/11, she has not shown any willingness to accept information that does not fit her existing beliefs. She is more than willing to accept anything that does though, without any apparent doubt or questioning,

      Not that I suppose it matters to you...

      Soval, I'm not going to help you derail this thread any more than you already have.

      If you want to post something relevant, then I'd love to read it.

      If not, then I have no interest in continuing this exchange with you.

      Cheers.

      • 4 votes
      #4.16 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 12:46 PM EDT
      Reply
      rose-231178

      Conspiracy theories will not stop, true.

      "Want to believe even if it is hogwash"

      is not.

      To many questions unanswered.

      There have been false flags before, some want to believe that only the likes of Hitler would stoop to them.

      Every conspiracy theory regarding WTC has been proved false by anyone with a brain.

      Always question. ALWAYS!

      Do you have unanswered questions?

      I do.

      • 8 votes
      Reply#5 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:26 PM EDT
      Simplistic Reality

      Like what are your "unanswered questions" that haven't been answered...? just curious.

      • 4 votes
      #5.1 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:31 PM EDT
      nearing

      I think she asked you first, SR.

      • 8 votes
      #5.2 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:32 PM EDT
      rose-231178

      1) a building that was not hit by a plane collapsed when older buildings of lesser construction and older burned for days without collapsing but these just happened to house gov't and financial offices.
      2) why can they not release the video of the Pentagon being hit other than a grainy pic from "a" camera?
      3) Why did our Gov't not heed warnings from up to 52 other countries.
      4) Why did the official report leave out info from #7...

      And why in the heck should I believe what the official version says? Why not question?

      • 14 votes
      #5.3 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:45 PM EDT
      nearing

      nice, rose.

      • 11 votes
      #5.4 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:46 PM EDT
      douglasq

      1) The architects are on record as stating that the design was meant to withstand a direct hit from an airplane at CRUISING speed. The hijackers had accelerated each plane to ramming speed, imparting far greater force on impact. They have demonstrated that the heat did not melt structural steel but did degrade its load bearing strength and its shape enough to cause failure. Gravity then took over.

      2) You're not one of those who think a plane didn't actually hit the Pentagon are you? A cruise missile doesn't leave that kind of wreckage.

      3) There's a reason the former VP's first name is "dick."

      4) Don't know.

      • 8 votes
      #5.5 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:09 PM EDT
      nearing

      They have demonstrated that the heat did not melt structural steel but did degrade its load bearing strength and its shape enough to cause failure. Gravity then took over.

      Please cite the scientific article that states this.

      Or better yet, go to the ae911truth.org site and see how the architects and engineers feel about this.

      You're not one of those who think a plane didn't actually hit the Pentagon are you? A cruise missile doesn't leave that kind of wreckage.

      Who said it had to be a 'cruise missile' and I didn't see enough wreckage for a airliner nor a hole large enough for one. Come to think of it, why did the government confiscate all of those many, many videos around Pentagon except the one that is equivocal?

      • 8 votes
      #5.6 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:16 PM EDT
      freebirdreaming

      bringing the shills together for a little reunion are you Nearing?

      That box cutter theory really is mediocre work.

      Any of you hacks can provide your evidence any time now. EVIDENCE. not a amateurish talking point response. ....evidence.

      link it, point to it......... I'll wait:)

      • 4 votes
      #5.7 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:34 AM EDT
      nearing

      I hope you are comfortable and got yourself a snack, freebird.

      You have a long wait.

      bringing the shills together for a little reunion are you Nearing?

      Gotta do our part to keep the fire burning, lest it go out :~)

      • 7 votes
      #5.8 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:42 AM EDT
      DarthOpto

      Wow the amount of stupid in this "discussion" is astounding. Almost as much as birthers.

      http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

      Every myth of the "truthers" debunked.

      • 5 votes
      #5.9 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:20 AM EDT
      freebirdreaming

      popular mechanics............ heheh, follow that trail and you will be surprised where it takes you:)

      • 3 votes
      #5.10 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:53 AM EDT
      bealdomourji

      popular mechanics from 2005 no less.

      • 4 votes
      #5.11 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:09 PM EDT
      upswing

      DarthOpto:

      The Popular Mechanics propaganda was thoroughly debunked years ago.

      Do you have any evidence that is both:

      1. Current?

      2. Credible?

      Thanks.

      • 5 votes
      #5.12 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:43 PM EDT
      nearing

      The Popular Mechanics propaganda was thoroughly debunked years ago.

      Yep, thoroughly.

      • 3 votes
      #5.13 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:52 PM EDT
      TBone

      Popular Mechanics article was so silly! To say NOTHING of the craziness that happened around that place! Holy smokes a massive walk-off and take over of a publication by the nephew of the director of HS? PLEASE!!!!

      • 4 votes
      #5.14 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 4:44 PM EDT
      Reply
      rose-231178

      Thanks Nearing.

      I think I am beginning to get feisty:) or perhaps have read enough but not near enough.

      • 6 votes
      Reply#6 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:51 PM EDT
      rose-231178

      Oops, no pun intended:)

      • 5 votes
      #6.1 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:57 PM EDT
      nearing

      Hahhaa, I liked the pun!

      • 4 votes
      #6.2 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:05 PM EDT
      Reply
      Jimi M

      The real conspiracy is that the construction of the trade center was shoddy to say the least. Materials and Inspection was extremely corrupt as is most construction sites in" The Big Apple" . Them towers went down for that reason and nothing else but of course not without a little help from the Saudis.

      Throw them death traps up collect the cash and cross your fingers that your out of there when it all comes down is the rallying cry from the people who want to make that easy buck.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#7 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:21 PM EDT
      rose-231178

      The biggest for me was the passport. Total annihilation of everything but, oh wait, here is proof of who did what.

      Really?

      And what was the report of bldg. 7? falling when it had not yet. Big Fubar.

      George Bush talking about seeing the first tower collapse?

      • 10 votes
      Reply#8 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:25 PM EDT
      nearing

      And what was the report of bldg. 7? falling when it had not yet. Big Fubar.

      oh yes!

      It's a wonder how any 'thinking' person can accept the Official Story as the truth!!

      • 10 votes
      #8.1 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:34 PM EDT
      Reply
      HorseTrainer

      Wake up People...Read the article .... Wow, why can't they believe the implosion happened. It is a fact

      • 9 votes
      Reply#9 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:48 PM EDT
      nearing

      Thank you, HT.

      Some people just can't face that fact that their own government would lie to them.

      I personally can't understand why they think they should trust the government in the first place! What have they ever done to EARN our trust?

      • 8 votes
      #9.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:07 AM EDT
      bernie-1722829

      nearing,

      Are you saying we should not trust Obama with our health care, also? I hope you are.

      • 2 votes
      #9.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:24 AM EDT
      nearing

      bernie, you are off-topic.

      I have stated by thoughts on that issue on those seeds.

      • 5 votes
      #9.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:28 AM EDT
      Reply
      Sir Richard Owen

      1) a building that was not hit by a plane collapsed when older buildings of lesser construction and older burned for days without collapsing but these just happened to house gov't and financial offices.

      The three buildings that collapsed all used Framed tube construction methods invented by an architect named Fazlur Rahman Khan.

      • 8 votes
      Reply#10 - Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:54 PM EDT
      nearing

      thank you for pointing that out, Sir.

      • 8 votes
      #10.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:08 AM EDT
      Sir Richard Owen

      I think this is one aspect that has never been looked at. There have been fires at other large buildings that didn't collapse, but they weren't designed and built the same way as the ones at the WTC.

        #10.2 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 3:07 PM EDT
        Reply
        ARodg

        Sigh....not this again. Truthers make birthers look like Mensa candidates.

        • 7 votes
        Reply#11 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:16 AM EDT
        DarthOpto

        Lol... especially when every theory they have drudged up has been debunked multiple times. In case anyone missed it, http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

        • 1 vote
        #11.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:23 AM EDT
        nearing

        please stop repeating yourself, it's tantamount to spam.

        Your links info has been completely debunked. Go to www.ae911truth.org

        READ.

        • 5 votes
        #11.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:53 PM EDT
        DarthOpto

        http://www.debunking911.com/

        • 1 vote
        #11.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:55 PM EDT
        Reply
        cmach

        Sad, very sad. I can't even fathom how anyone could think that the official version is true.

        nearing. there are plenty of us who are smart enough to see the truth.

        • 11 votes
        #12 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:28 AM EDT
        nearing

        Apparently, the poster before you isn't one of them.

        He/she didn't bother reading the article, I am sure.

        oh well.

        • 5 votes
        #12.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:29 AM EDT
        ARodg

        Or plenty of you that are still blinded by your own ignorance?

        • 5 votes
        #12.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:31 AM EDT
        nearing

        ARodg,

        Do you have something of substance to add, some evidence or a link to a scientific paper explaining how WTC7 could have fallen so neatly into it's own footprint at freefall speeds when not hit by a plane?

        If not, please spare us the 'blind ignorance' speech, for you make yourself look foolish.

        • 8 votes
        #12.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:34 AM EDT
        ARodg

        You are only making yourselves look foolish by continuing to spread this tinfoil hat nonsense. Be careful, I think the gov't may have planted a chip in your brain while you slept, they're listening!!

        • 6 votes
        #12.4 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:36 AM EDT
        freebirdreaming

        the fact remains arodg......... snarky is not evidence. and you are no engineer given the lack of response to pointed requests for links and evidence that your box cutter did the trick, that altitude does not bother cell phone connections, passports can survive fire but steel can not, shall i continue?

        • 4 votes
        #12.5 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:38 AM EDT
        D DeMilo

        ARodg - my cred's; PhD. Physics (theoretic) 1972

        background in structural engineering

        EOD training 1980

        multi-vectored stress analysis

        now explain to me in detail your position and we'll discuss it. if all you can do, however, is quote party lines, you have no credibility and little intelligence

        • 8 votes
        #12.6 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:39 AM EDT
        nearing

        Yeay, I didn't know that about you, D! Glad to have you here!

        • 5 votes
        #12.7 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:55 AM EDT
        FredC

        Nearing:

        Thank you for keeping the 9/11 conspiracy alive. I have posted the AE 9/11 Truth website as a reference in the past so many times my fingers are tired! How can you dispute so many qualified technical people? How many of us have seen controlled demolitions in our lifetime! Dozens of times I'll bet. They are always on TV! Doesnt the fall of the towers fit the pictures we see each and every time?

        Remember back in 1945 a B-25 bomber struck the 79th floor of the Empire State Bldg? It didnt colllapse. Granted it wasnt as big or carry the same type of fuel as the 9/11 planes, but its structural integrity wasnt compromised at all!

        • 5 votes
        #12.8 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:39 AM EDT
        DarthOpto

        You are comparing apples to oranges Fred.

        Remember back in 1945 a B-25 bomber struck the 79th floor of the Empire State Bldg? It didnt colllapse. Granted it wasnt as big or carry the same type of fuel as the 9/11 planes, but its structural integrity wasnt compromised at all!

        The construction between the Empire State Building and the WTC are completely different.

        The plane wasn't as big, as you said, and the fuel was completely different.

        Using your argument as proof that the WTC could have withstood a blast is completely specious.

        • 1 vote
        #12.9 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:48 AM EDT
        nearing

        Darth, so we can take it that you have some equations to refute what the engineers on

        www.ae911truth.org

        have said?

        • 5 votes
        #12.10 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:54 PM EDT
        DarthOpto

        http://www.debunking911.com/

          #12.11 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:56 PM EDT
          freebirdreaming

          darth you are now officially counted as shill and ignored.... congratulations:)

          • 6 votes
          #12.12 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:51 PM EDT
          Soval-1219303

          darth you are now officially counted as shill and ignored.... congratulations:)

          And Neraing isn't? He did exactly what she did (post a link to a website), but she is not a shill?

          Double standards, another blatant characteristic of the conspiratorial mindset.

          • 2 votes
          #12.13 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 4:58 AM EDT
          Synthesis

          Her thread, her rules.

          If you don't approve, well....there are plenty of other threads on the vine.

          • 3 votes
          #12.14 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 2:06 PM EDT
          nearing

          The difference Soval is that I post with my own words and type things relevant to the discussion, a link is always welcomed as an adjunct and to back up what one says in a post.

          But using a link as a post, especially over and over in a thread is spam.

          You can see the difference, can't you? Call me a name again and you will be deleted. This time I am leaving it for educational purposes.

          • 5 votes
          #12.15 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 3:03 PM EDT
          Reply
          cmach

          It's okay ARodg. You're a good little government soldier.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#13 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:41 AM EDT
          nearing

          Keeps right in line and keeps them boots shiny.

          • 5 votes
          #13.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:44 AM EDT
          Synthesis

          It's all the licking.

          • 3 votes
          #13.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:47 AM EDT
          cmach

          rofl!

          • 2 votes
          #13.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:49 AM EDT
          Reply
          fmcarp

          No, with steel framed buildings you really need only to load the bottom third to bring the building down.

          "I mean, come on, it was complete destruction. I've seen buildings fall like that for years -- that was the end game for me."

          So, first comment ignores the video showing floors collapsing one on top of the other from the point of the impact.

          Second comment leaves me wondering where these buildings he has seen fall like that were. How many buildings the size of the Twin Towers have been demolished over the years? Answer - none.

          Nearing, I never knew you were of this kind.

          • 5 votes
          Reply#14 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:44 AM EDT
          nearing

          That first sentence refers to WTC7. Watch a video of it collapsing and it does exactly what he says it did.

          2nd sentence - where does he claim anything about size? It's the manner in which a building (skyscraper of any size) falls that screams "controlled demolition".

          Nearing, I never knew you were of this kind.

          What kind? Smart, with physics education, able to question authority when I see I am being lied to?

          • 6 votes
          #14.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:48 AM EDT
          JACK DEATH

          Nearing I like your seeds but this is way to far out there for me to keep up tonight but, I will leave this one link if you or anybody else likes to read with an open mind.

          Good luck with this.

          http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11/

          • 3 votes
          #14.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:48 AM EDT
          nearing

          Sure, leave your link.

          But remember, one need not have an 'open-mind' in order to understand the laws of physics.

          http://www.ae911truth.org/

          does a fine job with those.

          • 4 votes
          #14.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:56 AM EDT
          Reply
          bobbievee

          Thought provoking article and comments.

          I need more time to digest the information presented here.

          But I am certain of one thing. The Iraq war would have been politically impossible without 9/11.

          • 7 votes
          Reply#15 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:55 AM EDT
          nearing

          I need more time to digest the information presented here.

          thank you, bobbievee, that is exactly my purpose in seeding it.

          The Iraq war would have been politically impossible without 9/11.

          And you are absolutely right about that!

          • 5 votes
          #15.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:57 AM EDT
          DarthOptoDeleted
          freebirdreaming

          if you track down the background on popuolar M........ all by your little old self, you'll discontinue using that as a ligitimate 'source'.

          if someone does it for you.......... you won't value the discovery:)

          • 3 votes
          #15.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:55 AM EDT
          Reply
          jeff-852195Deleted
          reknight1

          Let anyone look at footage of how this building fell. This is how building demolition looks. Ask an expert. Why we are being lied to about this disaster is the bigger question. Fire doesn't demolish building like this and in such an orderly manner. This was a planned, man-made destruction, by a bomb of some kind.

          • 7 votes
          Reply#17 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:57 AM EDT
          nearing

          That's the only conclusion any thinking person can come to, reknight1

          • 5 votes
          #17.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:59 AM EDT
          Reply
          Randy McMurphy

          Sorry Nearing, I love your seeds, but I have to disagree .

          My dad worked on the Trade Center, use to take us there when we were kids. He'd takes us to completed levels ,106th, 108th. They were completed and besides the elevator banks, you could see from one side to the other. It had not internal support, all its strength relied on its exoskeleton.

          My brother's firehouse was right across the street. He arrived after the 2nd attack. The heat in the lobby from the jet fuel spilling down was incredible. 3000 degrees, enough to turn any metal to slag. The weakened floors hit tore that structural sheathing. When they collapsed, it was like a 30 story building falling on a 70 story building. Building 7 collapsed as a result of being close to 2 1/4 mile buildings collapsing in close proximity.

          Bush was the worst, and I find it incredibly strange the level of exercises our air defense was involved in the day it occurred , but I think a conspiracy on such a grand scale has too many loose ends to, too many loose lips that it seriously . IT would also assume that administration had a level of competency I find hard to believe, unless Prime minister cheney was practicing some pretty evil mojo, like sipping delicate broth from the skulls of heartbroken dead retirees, or something...

          • 6 votes
          Reply#18 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:00 AM EDT
          nearing

          The heat in the lobby from the jet fuel spilling down was incredible. 3000 degrees, enough to turn any metal to slag.

          Randy, I love your posts too.

          Can you do me a favor, as one friend to another? Please go take a look at the Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth site.

          Even if you only take a look at the front page (but I hope you will read some articles and watch some videos) - you will see your thoughts on what happened that day refuted by physics experts.

          I know I don't need to convince you that Cheney and his puppet were capable of complicity and worse.

          • 6 votes
          #18.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:07 AM EDT
          reknight1

          Randy, did you know the the WTC was not made of normal metal. It was made of a very special fire-resistant metal not used in any other building before this? This was not just any metal.

          • 4 votes
          #18.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:07 AM EDT
          jeff-852195

          @18.1

          i've actually showed that video a few times in my own home, and handed out a few copies to those not so entrenched in the system.

          i think jesse ventura on trutv however falls way too short to be taken seriously.

          that's probably a "duh" statement to most here, but whatever.

          • 2 votes
          #18.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:15 AM EDT
          nearing

          i've actually showed that video a few times in my own home, and handed out a few copies to those not so entrenched in the system.

          The Blueprint For Truth one from http://www.ae911truth.org/?

          It's excellent!

          Too bad some of the posters further up won't bother with it.

          Can't comment on Jesse, I don't have a tv.

          • 3 votes
          #18.4 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:31 AM EDT
          Reply
          Mariyam

          Look at this photo of the debris field from a "regular" plane crash: Sole Survivor Children

          Now look at the "debris field" of the Pentagon: Pentagon Photos

          The hole in the wall of the Pentagon is said to be anywhere from 20 to 65 feet in width and that the building itself has a height of approximately 58 feet.

          A Boeing 757 has a wingspan of 124 feet and measures 44 ft in height to the top of it's tail.

          So where is the plane that hit the building or any of the components? The wings (2 of them) , engines (2 of them), landing gear and/or tires (5+), tail section?

          If they're not on the outside of the building the only other place they could be is on the inside right? But the hole made in the outer wall is barely big enough from some estimates for the fuselage to enter let alone the wings and tail section.

          Since planes don't just completely disintegrate upon lateral impact like that, we are left to believe that the only other explanation is that if the pieces of the plane didn't break off outside of the building then the wings swept back perfectly, retaining both engines and just slipped through the hole including the entire tail section and landing gear?

          When I was a kid, my parents had a subscription to several children magazines for us. In at least one of them, Highlight perhaps, there was in each edition a picture which at first glance looked perfectly ordinary but you had to figure out what was wrong with it.

          That's sort of how I feel each time I look at some of these photos. That there is something either I'm seeing or not seeing that doesn't make sense.

          • 5 votes
          Reply#19 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:23 AM EDT
          nearing

          a picture which at first glance looked perfectly ordinary but you had to figure out what was wrong with it.

          That's sort of how I feel each time I look at some of these photos. That there is something either I'm seeing or not seeing that doesn't make sense.

          Excellent analogy. I felt that way the first time I saw that photo to. Like, something just isn't right about this. Then when the only video (of like a dozen or more!) that the government would release was a few frames of 'something' hitting the side, I knew they were covering something up.

          That's when the real research for me began.

          • 5 votes
          #19.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:29 AM EDT
          reknight1

          The ridiculous explanation is that the jet fuel burned at such a high temperature that it incinerated the rolls engines. "If you tell a lie enough, people will believe it."

          • 5 votes
          #19.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:55 AM EDT
          nearing

          "If you tell a lie enough, people will believe it."

          Ain't that the truth?

          • 3 votes
          #19.3 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:58 AM EDT
          Leticia 007

          Hi Nearing & Mariyam,

          Come see the seed for "Do you believe in conspiracies"-- I am arguing with an pompous ass engineer who thinks he can tell me what to believe abt the pentagon--

          But I agree with you two on this--I felt/thought differently about it too due to pictures I've seen of plane crashes and the "plane crash site of the pentagon".

          I don't have any facts-my opinion is that I believe the Gov did our own people wrong and covered it up. It never made any sense for a terrorist to make a move on date that signifies "distress" in our country. Not to mention the "students" that flew these planes knew how to get passed security measures in place, etc.

          • 5 votes
          #19.4 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:28 AM EDT
          Straight Talk

          nearing: As a person who travels overseas frequently, who has friends and relatives in other parts of the world and who is exposed to foreign media, I can tell you that I have seen so much from both sides. Bottom line is one has to keep his/her mind open. Conspiracies are surfaced or grow when the other side fails to explain in any logical way.

          I am willing to believe that George Bush was an honest president, and Rumsfeld was the most patriotic American on 9/11/01. Whether Bush government was behind the attacks or not, they definitely misused these attacks to start Iraq war which had only one purpose - to gain power, money and resources for the selected few in our society.

          Bush first reasoned that attackers had direct links to Saddam and Iraqi embassies in Europe, therefore Iraq was behind 9-11. Then came WMD reason to attack Iraq, then many others later on. Its odd that the guys who empowered Saddam in the first place were Rumsfeld and Cheney in early 80s, since he was fighting Iran back then. Here is the link to open our eyes further.

          http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

          Looking at the overall picture, Bush government may not be behind the 9-11 attacks, but they are definitely behind acting against the US interest and putting its citizen in great danger and fueling more terrorism in the world.

          • 3 votes
          #19.5 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:45 PM EDT
          Amit-401468Deleted
          nearing

          We are kind of sliding off-topic a bit here.

          • 4 votes
          #19.7 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 3:05 PM EDT
          Straight Talk

          On comment 18.6, yes, we all know that Muslims are behind all evils. They are behind all the bombings and attacks, all the wars including world war 1 and 2, Korea, Vietnam, Africa, Falklands, slavery, famine, etc. etc. They are also behind Katrina, BP gulf disaster, all the earthquakes and storms ever occured on our planet.

          On the other hand Amit-401468 and spider-man are the ones keeping us safe!

          In all seriousness, I really had hoped that one day Islamic radicals and extremists would be defeated, but when the "good" side of this war too are comprised of extremists and opportunists, we can only see the rapid increase of extremism in this world. The only difference between Amit-401468 and other extremists is that he has no brain and is emotionally unstable.

          Like my Muslim friend I am I have travelled to dozens of countries around the world...

          You have been proven wrong many times in the past about your own claims. One time you are a recent immigrant, another time you own multinational conglomerate who owns so much wealth and lives in a mansion, another time you are a world traveler who seems to know everything about Islam, although you never across Muslims personally. So whihc countries and cities have you traveled. Please google and tell me what exactly you saw there.

          I think its for his own benefit to realize that keeping up with so much lies is difficult. One should check his past comments before making big claims. The only truth about him was stated very honestly by another newsviner newsviner PINCH. I wish he had learned something from this comment, but only thing he learned was to create another account of kevin-arnold123 in embarassment:

          Amit

          I have to admit that I am really lowering myself (I can feel the intellectual elevator falling as I type) to even comment on your posts, but since it has been that kind of night, I will indulge myself.

          You seem to believe you know a great deal about others from their posts which is decidedly untrue and has been since the advent of the internet. But I will offer you this, truly meant in all kindness: you reveal too much of yourself that is not positive in your posts.

          You appear very young, given your choice of soundbites instead of sources and commercial cites instead of carefully researched multiple and contradictory primary origin data, which require analysis and consolidation into original propositions which can then be taken seriously.

          Your grammar, sentence structure, inappropriate use of "slang", punctuation and even spelling (inappropriate homonyms are considered misspelled words) leave much to be desired in the world of educated people.

          Your redundancy does not help support your points. Good discussion and debate includes the ability to regroup and rephrase, rather than just increasing the volume.

          Please do not respond to me with your ever-growing list of "references". I have already seen them, and they form a part of why I have bothered with this comment, which I hope you will take as constructive. You may have a message, but what is happening to you is you are attracting people like yourself who are looking for a verbal fight, and see you as an easily provoked target.

          And finally, when you are trying to promote a viewpoint in a very critical point of discussion, evaluating yourself in the current economy in terms of your personal success, money and largess when the majority of people in this country are suffering from a loss or complete lack of these very things does not build you a supportive following, as you erroneously think. It instead reveals you as sadly out of touch with most people, and as you can see, they leave you to your shout-out matches.

          Please take a little time to review your contributions to this discussion and try to learn from the problems you have had. If you are as inherently intelligent as you may very well be, education is still a viable option for you and may get you the results you wish in the future.

          Best regards.

          I do not have this kind of patience with stupidity and could not state the obvious in such an honest way as stated by another user.

          • 2 votes
          #19.8 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 3:35 PM EDT
          nearing

          Okay, know we are REALLY OT.

          Stop please.

          • 4 votes
          #19.9 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 3:39 PM EDT
          Amit-401468Deleted
          nearing

          thank you, Amit.

          WISH EVERYONE A HAPPY & SAFE 4th OF JULY WEEKEND

          Same to you!

          • 3 votes
          #19.11 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 12:30 AM EDT
          Straight Talk

          Firstly my apologies for transgressing from the core discussion. But, having said that I must tell you I have had several discussions with people like our Muslim friend Straight Talk...

          So after apologizing for 'transgressing from the core discussion', you wrote 3 paragraphs and none of it was related to the topic. The fact is you constantly stalk people and repeat same comments without any logic. Phobia is all that is evident in your childish comments. Anyone can click on your name, read your past comments and figure that out.

          ...Muslim friend Straight Talk who masquerade in these columns as liberal Christian Americans with the sole aim of making Islam palatable to gullible Americans.

          Same accusations and no substance. As always, show me one comment when I pretended to be a liberal Christian. On the other hand, I say that I am a Muslim in about every other comment or so. I did that even on page 2 comment 30.7 ont his thread much before you arrived here. So what exactly is your point, other than getting egged everytime? I could not imagine that anybody's life was such a waste as it is in your case.

          Its funny that what you accuse of others, you yourself do that very regularly, and struggle badly to keep up with your lies. You created the account kevin-arnold123 and everyone figured you out - that is how DUMB you are!

          As I said earlier, there are bigots who would like to argue, and there are bigots who make other bigots embarras with their obvious stupidity. No surprise that when you jump in on my discussions with others, no one takes you seriously. I truly feel sorry for your family. In all seriousness, you should go back to what PINCH told you - he was v honest!

          Ahh, intellectual elevator had a free fall!

          • 4 votes
          #19.12 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 4:03 AM EDT
          forthefuture-8765309

          At this point I could care less about the "Liberal Christian." Or the "Anti-Anything-Else-Conservative."

          They are all wrapped up in the same class. The "Ugly Americana."

          • 1 vote
          #19.13 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 11:09 AM EDT
          nearing

          This is it's own sub-thread soap opera.

          Can we PLEASE, lades/gentlemen, go back to the topic of the seed?

          Please?

          • 4 votes
          #19.14 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 3:59 PM EDT
          Reply
          bealdomourji

          Building 7 was where they really pushed it beyond what we could swallow without the help of (un)healthy doses of antidepressant drugs.

          Come on-even cymbalta can't cover up that depressing truth.

          • 5 votes
          Reply#20 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:30 AM EDT
          nearing

          right?

          Funny how many Deniers don't know a 3rd building even fell!

          And it (Solomen building) being reported as falling BEFORE IT DID and captured on video!!

          Dummies! lololol

          • 5 votes
          #20.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:31 AM EDT
          Agent 57

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWKtO_xXsk&feature=related

          actually fox reported the collaspe in this video and then showed it collaspe as they we discussing it... pretty weird

          • 6 votes
          #20.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:55 PM EDT
          nearing

          nice find, Agent 57.

          Wow, they show it going down live but had already reported it down!!

          LOL!

          • 3 votes
          #20.3 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 4:40 PM EDT
          Bernard-372061

          Lady on Right - " I want to tell you that we are getting word from New York right NOW that another building has collapsed ...."

          Lady on Right - MINUTER LATER -- .."It's going down right now"

          Man on Left- "we are seeing video today that only Hollywood could have produced at another time ....."

          Enough said ... Thanks for the link Agent 57!

          • 3 votes
          #20.4 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 1:07 PM EDT
          nearing

          Lady on Right - " I want to tell you that we are getting word from New York right NOW that another building has collapsed ...."

          Lady on Right - MINUTER LATER -- .."It's going down right now"

          How anyone with a brain can see this stuff (en masses now) and not know that the Official Boxcutter Story is a big fat lie, is absolutely incredible.

          • 5 votes
          #20.5 - Fri Jul 2, 2010 3:07 PM EDT
          Reply
          vincent110Deleted
          D DeMilo

          another incongruety for you Neering - video was made available of the first and second impacts taken by a high res camera from a elevated position (rooftop or upper floor window) demonstating no shaking or movement (tripod or fixed mounting). why would there be a $8000+ video camera trained on just the right point at just the right time and later attributed to "a tourist's camcorder" by NBC ?

          • 2 votes
          Reply#22 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:59 AM EDT
          nearing

          No kidding? I wasn't aware.

          Do you have a link to that? I'd love to add it to my collection.

          • 2 votes
          #22.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:04 AM EDT
          D DeMilo

          I'll see if the link is still active, otherwise I'll e-maill you a copy of the video

          • 1 vote
          #22.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:01 AM EDT
          nearing

          thanks.

          • 2 votes
          #22.3 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 4:43 PM EDT
          Reply
          Jrb-x

          reknight1

          Huge planes have crashed into buildings before. The result: the buildings burned for days, but not one collapsed. Did you notice the orderly way these buildings collapsed?

          Source please. I need to know what buildings have been hit by 757 & 767 airplanes and survived. I can believe small engine planes crashed into a building and the building survived, but not a 757 or 767. I'm awaiting the source.

            #23 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:07 AM EDT
            reknight1

            There are numerous sources for this information. Why not do a little research. Type it into your search engine and see what you find.

            • 2 votes
            #23.1 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:17 AM EDT
            nearing

            Mandarin Hotel in Beijing

            THE JET FUEL; HOW HOT DID IT HEAT
            THE WORLD TRADE CENTER?

            Summarizing:

            We have assumed that the entire 3,500 gallons of jet fuel was confined to just one floor of the World Trade Center, that the jet fuel burnt with perfect efficency, that no hot gases left this floor, that no heat escaped this floor by conduction and that the steel and concrete had an unlimited amount of time to absorb all the heat.

            Then it is impossible that the jet fuel, by itself, raised the temperature of this floor more than 257° C (495° F).

            Now this temperature is nowhere near high enough to even begin explaining the World Trade Center Tower collapse.

            It is not even close to the first critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F) where steel loses about half its strength and it is nowhere near the quotes of 1500° C that we constantly read about in our lying media.

            "In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900° C (1,500-1,700° F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments."

            Quote from the FEMA report (Appendix A).

            Recalling that the North Tower suffered no major structural damage from the intense office fire of February 23, 1975, we can conclude that the ensuing office fires of September 11, 2001, also did little extra damage to the towers.

            Conclusion:

            The jet fuel fires played almost no role in the collapse of the World Trade Center.

            • 6 votes
            #23.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:22 AM EDT
            DarthOptoDeleted
            GraveMind

            Personally I think people have been watching to many movies, TV programing, and video games. Things don't just disappear when they are critically damaged, they typically leave at least vaguely recognizable remains. Making things 'disappear' usually takes a special amount of skill. Brute physics usually aren't enough for that Houdini effect, u fallow? The ramifications to be considered for this I leave up to the viewer, however I will say; Cui bono! If our Al Qaeda friends were 'skilled' enough to pull this magic act off, one might also expect that they would be a little more skilled at chess.

            • 3 votes
            #23.4 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:46 PM EDT
            Jrb-xDeleted
            reknight1

            So if people do not believe what you do Jrb-x, then they are nuts and un-American?

            • 1 vote
            #23.6 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 1:22 AM EDT
            Jrb-x

            I don't see how you got that out of my sentence. Nice try though. You're un-American if you believe our Government murdered 3000 of it's own people right in front of us. Oh, did I mention, Osama Bin Laden admitted on tape to the 9/11 attacks. He stated it wasn't his intention to "bring down the buildings" but he was glad it happened. Are you people really suggesting that our Government is cooperating with the world's #1 terrorist by placing explosives in busy buildings?

            • 2 votes
            #23.7 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 1:27 AM EDT
            reknight1

            I suggest your re-read your own first sentence.

            • 1 vote
            #23.8 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 1:30 AM EDT
            Jrb-x

            Hmm. I just did. I said you're un-american for believing this. I did NOT say you're un-american for not believing everything that I believe. I don't know what your problem is. Maybe go to your nearest community college and take some general education courses.

            • 1 vote
            #23.9 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 1:35 AM EDT
            reknight1

            You can play with words all you want, insult people whom you know nothing about. The fact is that your own words claim that anyone who does believe this demolition expert is un-American and is a nut. Logically, you are stating(whether you know it or not) that you are a real American because you do not believe this expert; therefore, all who do not agree with you (at least on this issue)are not real Americans but what you called un-Americans and further that they are nuts, by your view.

            • 1 vote
            #23.10 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 1:47 AM EDT
            killer bees

            Jrb-x, do you really think the US government would lace blankets with small-pox and give those blankets to American Indians?

            Do you really think the US government would place a bounty on the scalps of Indians, whether they were men, women or children?

            My point is certain administrations within the American government are not so squeaky clean, as you and some of the others would have us to believe, as history clearly shows.

            You may think it is un-American to say so but Roosevelt knew the Japanese were on there way to Pearl Harbor and did nothing to stop them, because he wanted to go to war. This is the truth and documented. Don't believe it, look it up.

            You many think it is un-American to say the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki helped bring the war to a close. But the truth is those bombs didn't have to be dropped. Japan was already in their final stages of surrender. It was Roosevelt who said he wanted to teach those Japs a lessons, that's why the bombs were dropped.

            What is un-American is not to question your government because when you don't do that, you become complicit in whatever evil is being done.

            In one of their own publication People for the New American Century (PNAC) said in their own words the US needed an attack on their own soil to help persuade and galvanize the American people for war in the Middle East.

            And the next thing we know, there is an attack on the Towers. Followed by a rush to go to war unnecessarily with both Iraq and Afghanistan, two countries which have never done anything to the US.

            • 6 votes
            #23.11 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 7:30 AM EDT
            forthefuture-8765309

            Jrb-X

            You're all nuts for believing this and you're very un-american.

            I love how you couldn't just go to another article.

            I love how you just had to damn all. Without even saying "Hey man...I hear what your saying but it just doesn't hold water." You must be what twenty..........two?

            • 3 votes
            #23.12 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 7:56 AM EDT
            TBone

            jrb-x

            You are so very wrong about the patriotism of people that question 9/11. A patriot will protect this country and NOT let it fall into the hands of the CFR and IMF. Supporting the take-over of the US by international banks would, however, make you a traitor, in my considered opinion. Do you agree?

            • 7 votes
            #23.13 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 10:28 AM EDT
            nearing

            #21.5 deleted for violation of the CoH.

            • 3 votes
            #23.14 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 4:45 PM EDT
            GraveMind

            ladies and gentlemen, I would like to remind all concerned that it was no evil creature from hell that killed Able. It was his own brother.

            I am a Combat Engineer, and I have been in Iraq; as far as 'patriot,' I am not really sure what the definition of that word actually is, due to it's use. I believe in taking care of the person to my right and to my left. Common sense tells me that is really all I can do.

            It is common prudent practice for ruling parties to reward friends and punish enemies; but what are friends, and what are enemies? You may think the answer is black and white, like 'good' and 'evil,' but as far as I am concerned this demonstrates a naivety that borders on reckless. Team spirit has its place, I am sure, as there is a certain amount of quid pro quo that must be maintained among those who are considered 'your own,' (a prince without subjects is ruined) and if you have to choose sides, there are indeed some parties that may be more beneficial to you then others. However, do not be mistaken; you are you, and I am me. 'Us,' 'we,' and 'ours,' while providing a certain amount of warm fuzzy is only as real as circumstance will allow.

            Regardless, you may say, I will choose the high road! I will be honorable and faithful! I concur, but to assume that everyone else you think is 'on your team' holds to the same philosophy is truly an inductive leap to say the least.

            • 2 votes
            #23.15 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 11:04 PM EDT
            GraveMind

            Above I said,

            If our Al Qaeda friends were 'skilled' enough to pull this magic act off, one might also expect that they would be a little more skilled at chess.

            which is as much as to say, (having been to Iraq myself) is that the people at the top of Uncle Sam's list have the statue of liberty's fist so far up their arses that all the kings horses and men could not remove it with the will of leviathan.

            Who knows, sometimes people make dumb moves.

            • 3 votes
            #23.16 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 11:16 PM EDT
            nearing

            GM, you write poetically.

            • 3 votes
            #23.17 - Sat Jul 3, 2010 11:21 PM EDT
            GraveMind

            thank you, nearing.

            • 1 vote
            #23.18 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 12:21 AM EDT
            forthefuture-8765309

            I'm sorry Nearing ....But I have to horribly, and with great ease, yet tons of discomfort. Disagree with you on this post by GraveMind.

            What he posted in 21.13 is more hyperbole than what Bush leaves in his toilet every day. Exactly what did he say? Poetic is about all that was there. I'm not the offender here. I'm the defender here.

            Your service to my country seems that it has clouded your vision of anything. It's all twisted while snaking through nothing. It left me with more of an upset stomach than any plausible answer to anything.

            I thought after the opening statement: "Wow here is a guy who was in our military. Starting out with a great opener. He may/will have something solid. Something I can believe in." I felt I might fall back into a clear pool with a glass of Lipton ice tea in my hand. While afterward taking a bath in an aromatic day dream while asking "Calgone to take me away!" Then totally went all post traumatic syndrome on me!

            What the heck are you smoking my friend. I want some of that gi joe green ya got there bud. Can you only get that in rainbow flavors? Is that straight g-13 bud from Afghanistan?

            Someone put a bullet in my head.

            • 1 vote
            #23.19 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 2:01 AM EDT
            GraveMind

            lol and rofl!! SCORE!!!

            Well... with a name like GraveMind, what do you expect?

            I am what I am, I make no appology.

            I am actually do to go back here shortly, and I will, without a word of complaint, because I take care of the men to my right and my left.

            I have sold my soul to Uncle Samael for 7 years,

            and I intend to make good.

            But if it is expected that I be Dumb, deaf, and blind; I am afraid I may be the wrong man for the job. I connot deny what I see, who I am, or where I come from.

            The math is cold and hard.

            • 3 votes
            #23.20 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 3:08 AM EDT
            forthefuture-8765309

            SCORE!!!

            Yes I was in rare form early this morning. You caught me off....way off guard.

            I gotcha man. I'm just a poor/cold/weary old lefty. With a bad valve in his ticker. Unable to afford a new one.

            Good luck and try to be safe. My heart goes out to you for your efforts.

            Seriously! I honor your patriotism in volunteering for that job.

            • 2 votes
            #23.21 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 9:07 AM EDT
            Reply
            reknight1

            D DeMilo, did you notice that the building did not fall on its weakest side? It fell from the side that did not have damage. Is that not an impossibility of physics? The weak side should fall first.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#24 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:09 AM EDT
            DarthOptoDeleted
            D DeMilo

            The weak side should fall first.

            appearance can be deceiving as we can't tell by looking what is happening with the structure. we can, however, expect that the way the towers collapsed into their own footprint and the other noted indicators that explosives were involved (although thermite is unlikely)

            • 1 vote
            #24.2 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:08 AM EDT
            nearing

            DarthOpto,

            You are spamming my seed.

            Stop.

            • 2 votes
            #24.3 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 4:46 PM EDT
            Reply
            reknight1

            By the way, jrbx, did you notice the orderly way the buildings collapsed?What do your own eyes tell you?

            • 3 votes
            Reply#25 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:23 AM EDT
            DarthOptoDeleted
            Reply
            Aunk (The Cultural Health Guy)

            Hetep and Respect Nearing, Bush and the forty thieves should be tried for treason.

            • 6 votes
            Reply#26 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:25 AM EDT
            nearing

            agreed, for many incidences of it, in fact.

            • 5 votes
            #26.1 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 4:46 PM EDT
            Reply
            azdad48

            I remember that day vividly, and I especially remember seeing WTC7 collapse on TV, so much later than the twin towers. I had witnessed a controlled demolition of a building firsthand a few years before, and my very first thought when I saw that building go down on TV was "oh, I guess the authorities did a controlled demolition of that smaller building on purpose." In the emotional heat of the moments of that day, I didn't think about the fact that controlled demolitions take a lot of advance planning and preparation.

            The clincher for me was the high school physics teacher's analysis with a common piece of software that physics students everywhere use, in which he analyzed the motion of the roofline of WTC in the CNN video clip of its collapse. The motion of the roofline very clearly followed a free-fall trajectory, and there is really no disputing that unless you want to argue that the videos that were broadcast on national TV that day were faked.

            The implications of free-fall are clearly explosive demolition. It's the who, how and why that have still never been answered. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I do wonder why there is this big change of heart between the government's preliminary & final reports on 9/11. The preliminary report concludes against free-fall of WTC7 and the final report concludes that it truly was free-fall...but has no discussion of what that means or how it could happen.

            Maybe it was a conspiracy on the part of someone, or maybe it was a well-planned controlled demolition by the terrorists who orchestrated all the evil events of that day, but whoever did it and why, the science does not support the theory of melting support beams or gradual structural degradation due to the heat of the fire. The supports were suddenly kicked out from under the building, and the evidence supports no other theory but that one.

            • 6 votes
            Reply#27 - Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:31 AM EDT
            nearing

            The motion of the roofline very clearly followed a free-fall trajectory, and there is really no disputing that unless you want to argue that the videos that were broadcast on national TV that day were faked.

            That's right.

            • 3 votes
            #27.1 - Thu Jul 1, 2010 4:47 PM EDT
            Reply
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