The Truth about the Flu Shot

Every word.

no kidding mrbinga...i was in boot camp in 76 and forced to take the swine flu shot.....one of the other 'recruits' went into convulsions and swallowed her tongue about 2 hours after being vaccinated........our whole company was on 'light duty' for 3 days following & the recruit who had the convulsions never graduated with us...we assumed she was transferred to another company, but who knows? I guess I'll have to do a people search for her and see what I can find----I personally was sick as a dog for a few days from the vaccine and have refused flu vaccines ever since--seems like the cure is worse than the disease....that applies to a lot of diseases I think.....ever listen to the commercials about some new pharmaceutical 'wonder drug' that will cure ___________( you name it) then listen to the list of 'side effects'---lots of times it makes me wonder....the side effects sound much worse than the disease

My daughter was always ill as a baby....typical stuff. Everyone wanted me to get her vaccinated.....after my experiences I refused.

She's almost 18 and flu shot free and has never had the flu. Poll taken.

I must admit though......when push comes to shove it's a mandatory thing then I will......but only if mandatory and I would probably implore my daughter and parents do so before I jumped in.

:)

In spite of anecdotal stories, flu shots will help far more people than they will harm.

Sort of like seatbelts.

The groups most at risk of dying of flu complications, esp. pneumonia, include elderly people, immune compromised people (cancer, AIDS), and to a lesser degree young children.

It's sensible to vaccinate the most at-risk people first then worry about healthy adults and adolescents.

Thank you ( nearing ) i try to research all the facts when possible , people need to wake from there coma and get informed !

Nearing, you come across as educated, so why post a misleading reference like "Vaccines don't work at all." Or worse yet, Vaccines are meant to kill. Talk about ignorance...

Let's ask the self proclaimed experts who disseminate this disnformation a few questions.

How do you account for the disappearance of smallpox from the world?

Or the absence of polio in North America and Europe?

When is the last time you heard about someone getting measles or mumps?

Why has chicken pox become so rare?

Why do so few children today die of diphtheria or pertussis compared to a century ago?

The answer to all these questions is: BECAUSE VACCINES WORK IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE.

I thought only well meaning airheads like Jenny McCarthy were still on the war path against vaccines. Live and learn.

Dr. Day may have graduated from medical school, but her crazy statements are a good indication that she went off the deep end long ago.

You don't have any proof that vaccines work on the vast majority of people, BJK. Sorry, but you don't.

Please tell me you are joking.

You claim you went to medical school. Super. Did you think they were making up a story when they taught you about the eradication of smallpox?

Or about Jonas Salk and the polio vaccine?

How do you account for the drop off in childhood measles cases since 1959 when the measles vaccine became routine?

The FACT is, the vast majority of children who get vaccinated against diseases like polio, diphtheria, pertusis, measles, mumps, rubella, varicella, etc. never get these illnesses. Their bodies make antibodies in response to the killed virus, and that provides immunity to the actual virus if and when they encounter it.

In case you were wondering, I also went to medical school. Luckily, I stayed awake.

I watched some of Dr. Ayoub's presentation.

I agree that vaccines should not contain thimerosal or aluminum salts if at all possible.

I also think that attributing a rise in the number of cases of autism to trace amounts of metals in vaccines is an example of grasping at straws.

As with most diseases, it's a safe bet that some combination of environmental factors and genetic predisposition results in autism/pervasive developmental delay/whatever term they want to apply to a condition they know relatively little about.

I'll keep the identity of my employer a secret. ;-)

Wow, what sensationalist crap. Jenny McCarthy is full of it and I too thought that most intelligent people realized this for what it is. Anecdotes certainly don't prove a thing - I have an anecdote too. I used to get the flu every year and I haven't once gotten it since I started getting yearly flu shots, and neither have any of my friends (who also get a flu shot each year).

Vaccines prevent tons of diseases. You don't have any proof that they don't - there is plenty of proof that they DO. But some people would rather listen to anecdotes with no proof. I think parents who choose not to get their kids vaccinated should be heavily fined if the kids end up getting sick - we do not want measles, polio, smallpox etc. decimating us like they used to do.

Even the autism/vaccine so-called link is a bunch of B.S. with absolutely no scientific claims.

Listening to that crackpot for ten seconds confirmed my opinion. Psychotic at worst. Delusional to say the least.

The ultimate irony is that Dr. Day was probably vaccinated against polio, smallpox, and other childhood diseases that once upon a time killed millions of people worldwide.

I just hope she never practices conventional medicine again.

The ultimate irony is that Dr. Day was probably vaccinated against polio, smallpox, and other childhood diseases that once upon a time killed millions of people worldwide.

The good news is, she is still alive, and, has developed a concience.

I don't wish her ill.

I simply wish she'd preface her ignorant statements with, "After I lost my mind several years ago..."

To make absurd claims like "Vaccines don't work at all," then to proudly flaunt an MD degree strikes me as schizophrenic.

Worse yet, too many people out there will accept her words as gospel, because after all, she has an MD.

At least when it's Jenny McCarthy ranting that her child got autism because of vaccinations (in all likelihood that's false), very few people will take her seriously.

Seems the one misinformed and led astray is you .

Many of us commenting on this article are highly medically trained...amongst other areas .

That's why we are at Pandemic level according to the CDC and WHO? Swine flu and H1N1 has killed how many in the USA?

You are irresponsible for promoting fear and hysteria.And unreliable sources.Compromised. Read the article again.

Teodoro L wrote:

That's why we are at Pandemic level according to the CDC...

For support you quote the very source that you cite as "unreliable", "compromised". Sorry, but you've been "compromised" and are "unreliable".

Vaccines do not save the individual, they reduce spread in the community. They do work somewhat and even at that level they reduce spread. You have to understand how disease spread and the risk of the vaccines. They is no 100% everyone will benefit or that not have them the community will benefit.

That being said I don't get the either. Color me selfish/chicken.

Iconoclasm wrote:

Vaccines do not save the individual...

Not true. The majority of "flu" deaths in the elderly are due to secondary bacterial pneumonias. Prevent the flu, prevent pneumonia. That being said, I get the flu vaccine every year so that I don't risk giving the flu to my elderly grandparents (even though they also get the vaccine). Color me caring/compassionate.

Zed,did you notice the question mark at the end of the sentence?

We are not at Pandemic level according to the stats.CDC or WHO.

Fear and hysteria being promoted early? These are the facts from the CDC in the deaths caused by H1N1 in the USA = 170.

CDC:Novel H1N1 Flu Situation Update
July 2, 2009, 2:30 PM ET

Regular flu has killed thousands since January - CNN.com....the regular flu kills 36000 people a year in the United States.

Are we anywhere near the regular flu deaths per year(And it is not declared a pandemic or epidemic by either agency)?

You go right ahead and continue on...but the facts state another matter....follow the money trail...

I'm adding upswings article here to prove that the intent will be to promote "mandatory" vaccinations despite the evidence contrary ...UK is just a little more totalitarian (has progressed faster) than the USA at this point....but they intend this to be implemented across the world...(how much money can they practically make if they even vaccinate 1/8 of the worlds population?)

http://upswing.newsvine.com/_news/2009/07/11/3018399-entire-uk-population-to-be-vaccinated-against-swine-flu

yeah,and who do you work for?the cdc?could be your the mole in this seed.

Teodoro - I'd sooner go to a homeless person wandering outside a hospital for medical advice than trust the disinformation crowd on this thread.

They don't have a clue either, but at least they're honest and admit they have no clue.

Teo wrote:

Swine flu and H1N1 has killed how many in the USA?

It's not just about H1N1. The influenza vaccination is developed from a combination of several flu variants depending on the strains that are predicted to be circulating during our cold and flu season. H1N1 may currently be mixing with other strains in the southern hemisphere right now, increasing its virulence. So, inclusion of H1N1 and other strains (the "regular flu") in the development of this Fall's flu vaccine seems prudent to me. BTW, "Swine flu" and H1N1 are one and the same.

Actually their not.

The H1N1 virus behind the current flu outbreak contains genetic material from birds, humans and pigs, though it's called "swine flu" because it's a type of virus that typically infects hogs

If you can believe that crock...genetic material that crosses barriers.

We don't get swine flu.It was misnamed. They changed the name for 2 reasons.

1st, they thought it came from swine.

2nd, the pork industry was taking a hit of losses

So no,they are not the same. Thanks for allowing me to clear this up for the people who aren't aware.

Teo- Not only can humans catch the flu virus from swine, we can catch it from chickens also.

Hence the term avian flu.

Viruses are the paradigm for how genetic material crosses barriers.

HIV, Hepatitis B and C, and Human Papilloma Virus are the best examples.

For anyone interested in credible, scientific facts about influenza, including key information about the flu vaccine, click on the Centers for Disease Control Web site.

Amen.

H1N1 is a virus encased by human protein...hemagglutinin and neuraminidase. Natural mutation or human engineering?

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/04/29/swine-flu-h1n1-whats-in-a-name/

It’s true that you can’t get swine flu from eating cooked pork, and the disease is now passing from human to human. But the virus’s genetic signature does suggest that it originated in pigs.

President Obama and other federal officials this morning referred to the disease as the “H1N1 flu virus” Here’s what that means.

All flu viruses — human, bird, pig — have an “H” and an “N” in the name, each followed by a number (the avian flu strain that has been worrying people is H5N1, for example).

The letters refer to two proteins (hemagglutinin and neuraminidase) on the surface of the virus. The numbers refer to slight variations in the form of each protein. The variations are important, because our immune system hones in on those proteins to attack the virus.

As it turns out, human strains of H1N1 flu are also pretty common. In fact, the vaccine used for the flu season that’s just ending protected against a strain of human H1N1 virus. But unfortunately, because of differences between the human and swine versions of the flu, the human vaccine doesn’t appear to protect against swine H1N1.

Update, April 30: The WHO now says it will refer to the virus as influenza A(H1N1).

This from the Wall Street Journal. Why the word games with the CDC and the WHO?

Just like my room-mate , he use to be very out going and now all he can do is lay around . It has devastated him .

jbdaad wrote:

What is the percentage of people who get the Flu per year ? (without the shot?)

It varies depending on many factors including the virulence of the strain that is spreading at any given time. You can find an interactive map with flu statistics by state on the CDC Flu Surveillance Web site.

The flu vaccine contains three strains of heat killed/formalin fixed flu virus. Two influenza A strains, one influenza B strain.

In most years, the people who develop the vaccine get it right, and the vaccine covers well over 90% of the strains of flu circulating around the globe.

Every now and then, a strain arises suddenly (usually in China) and reaches epidemic levels before a vaccine can be produced.

Why China? Because they raise millions upon millions of pigs, ducks, and chickens in close proximity to people. Humans can catch the flu from every single one of the above species, although pigs are generally the culprit.

As long as people eat pork and chicken, flu epidemics are inevitable.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I can't resist telling the truth.

1. If the freemasons and other irrelevant clubs you're afraid of want to decrease world population, they've failed miserably. The human population has more than tripled since 1900. Mostly because of improved hygiene, e.g. sewage treatment plants, and CHILDHOOD VACCINES.

2. Whoever told you that swine flu or any other strain of flu was manmade was flat out wrong - or intentionally lying. Possibly both.

3. No one from the government will put a gun to your head to make you take a flu vaccine. You won't have to hide in some underground bunker in the woods. Rolls eyes.

Dr. Ayoub does not make a convincing case linking vaccines, aluminum toxicity, and autism/CNS disorders.

As metals go, aluminum is less toxic than mercury or lead.

Exposure to these two metals is far more likely to cause brain damage compared to aluminum.

It reminds me of the brief scare several years ago when someone claimed that cooking with aluminum pots could cause Alzheimer's disease.

The basis of this claim was the observation that sticking aluminum up rabbits' noses for sufficient lengths of time resulted in brain damage.

Kind of an underwhelming result...

I doubt Big Pharma will listen to me, you, or anyone else.

I also fail to see how they're "pulling the wool over our eyes."

Your last comment proves my point. Anything in excess is harmful. Even water and oxygen, and those are essential for life.

The observation that the vast majority of children who receive vaccines never develop autism is enough to convince me that that the cause of autism is something other than trace amounts of mercury or aluminum salts in vaccines.

I agree.

I'm disappointed when a fellow med school graduate gives an air of respectability to sheer nonsense - you'll know exactly what I mean after watching the Dr. Day video for 30 seconds.

Even the Dr. Ayoub video - which was generally objective - still left important questions unanswered.

For example, he presented some unpublished data claiming that, on average, autistic children had three times the aluminum levels in their red blood cells compared to healthy controls.

Two problems. First, the concentrations were measured in nanograms per liter, a concentration so dilute that it amounts to a trace of a trace of a substance. Most toxins are measured in parts per million; this concentration corresponds to parts per billion.

The second problem was far worse. I looked at the date of the study, and it appeared to be 2006. Why let a potentially important discovery go unpublished for three years? I believe part of the reason is that only published experiments can be repeated and subjected to independent analysis.

People who are anti-vaccine consider it a religion - based completely on faith and no facts. You know, yesterday I sneezed and then I stubbed my toe a few minutes later, so sneezing must cause some type of clumsiness.

Not to mention that tons of people think they have the flu when they just have a cold, so many of these anecdotes aren't even true. Just like a lot of people ask their doctors for antibiotics for viral illnesses .... misinformation guides a lot of people's medical decisions.

People who are anti-vaccine consider it a religion - based completely on faith and no facts

Not quite... I know of many in the health care industry that won't go near the flu shot of any variety. Their decision is based on their specialized knowledge, and awareness of what really happens to the population in general with the application of moderate risk, low effectiveness, high profit answers from the pharmaceutical industry/CDC.

Quite honestly, looking at the information available from both sides, it is those promoting the flu shots that appear to be more fanatical group with the psuedo-religious mantra of the snake oil salesman.

Before citing the Free Masons for anything, you should really find out who and what they are.

As for my anecdotal testimony, I haven't had a cold or the flu in years. Not since I started smoking. (Of course, that's the same time I started washing my hands like a mad woman-graduating into hand sanitizers when then became available-, eating vitamin C like it was candy, and popping Echinacia from September through March!)

Cyp - I think you raise a good point, and I appreciate your honesty.

I would respond that the key difference between Joseph Lister employing sterile techniques in the operating room and the vaccine debate comes down to empirical evidence.

Knowing nothing about germs as the cause of postoperative infection, people could still observe an obvious trend: Surgeons who sterilized their equipment saw far fewer of their patients die of postoperative infection compared to those who did not.

In contrast, I see no empirical evidence to suggest that children who receive vaccines are developing autism left and right. Even if 1 in 200 children receives a diagnosis of autism (I believe this to be a grossly exaggerated number), it would still be an extremely tenuous association.

An even more important question is: have other countries that routinely vaccinate children observed a surge in autism cases?

Better yet, why did it happen so recently? Prior to the 1990's, autism was barely a blip on the radar screen of developmental disorders. Then came the movie Rain Man and before long, the media and a few celebrities fueled a national fascination and hysteria about autism.

As with most disorders, some cases of autism will turn out to be hereditary while most will be due to a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

Now you're interfering with their advertising with facts... no fair. Just because they haven't been correct even once in predicting the exact strain that needed to be guarded against is no reason to think that they won't get lucky eventually.

24 hours? Then you most likely didn't have the flu. There is no way to know for sure, though, unless you went to the doctor.

You know, 24 hour stomach flu? Ever have that? I mean, I don't want you to, it's enough pain for five people, but I think that's what it's called.

What people call "stomach flu" is not actually influenza, it is gastroenteritis. Some people also call it "riding the porcelain pony."

And, the virus in the influenza vaccine is dead and cannot give you influenza.

Ah, turns out you're right. Now I know I really don't need the vaccine! Hope I didn't just jinx myself..

And the dead/deactivated flu in a vaccine is true, too. But I'm skeptical. I hear scientists are still baffled as to how a virus actually functions, since it never really seems to be alive in the first place. I guess that's where the 'deactivated' comes from, and not 'dead'.

Gastroenteritis has nothing to do with whether or not you need the flu vaccine, and that's your choice. I believe in it - you don't - and I hope you don't get the flu either way. I don't believe in jinxes, even though I might cross my fingers at times :) BTW thank you for wishing I never get it, even though I was disagreeing with you. I forgot to say that earlier. Many people in here wouldn't have been so kind.

Scientists do actually know a lot about how vaccines work. Some people will have reactions to the vaccine (not autism) but the percent is much lower than those who will be affected by the disease and suffer much more. Measles causes sterility ... and we almost had it eradicated. Now the no-vaccine-crowd is setting their kids up for all kinds of worse problems than the vaccine might cause.

No one should be forced to take meds or vaccines.

Absolutely. Unless you join the military or work for the CDC or at a hospital, no one can force you to take a vaccine.

--they need to keep people living so they can make more money giving drugs to them to "fight" the ills they have given us with their vaccinations

Please enlighten us as to the "ills" caused by vaccines.

I don't mean injection site tenderness or even a mild fever.

The rate of serious adverse effects from vaccines is miniscule - on the order of one in several hundred thousand or less.

BJK:

Absolutely. Unless you join the military or work for the CDC or at a hospital, no one can force you to take a vaccine.

All the necessary legal machinery exists to enable the government to force people to take vaccines. What makes you so certain that that machinery won't be cranked up if people start dying in the streets?

At that point, people would be climbing over each other to get vaccinated.

No government coercion necessary.

BJK:

At that point, people would be climbing over each other to get vaccinated.

No government coercion necessary.

This seems like an unreasonably broad -- and unsupportable -- claim.

You came up with a scenario - kind of like the 1918 flu pandemic - in which large numbers of people were dying of a virus.

I simply noted that if an effective vaccine became available, people would fight and literally climb over each other to get vaccinated.

Chalk it up to the survival instinct.

BJK:

I simply noted that if an effective vaccine became available, people would fight and literally climb over each other to get vaccinated.

I don't follow how this response addresses the question of whether or not the people who refused to take the vaccine -- and, reading this thread, there seem to be many who would refuse, irrespective of purported outcomes of vaccination -- would be dealt with...

Maybe I'm missing something..?

Or are you saying you know for sure that nobody will refuse to take the vaccine...?

If so, I'm curious as to what you would base that certainty on.

So few people would refuse that the hold outs would be the proverbial drop in the bucket.

In practical terms, it wouldn't be much of an issue because during a rapidly spreading epidemic, people who don't get vaccinated either catch the illness and recover or catch the illness and die.

Sure, a few people will always be stubborn simply to be stubborn - kind of like the hand full of people who refused to evacuate their homes when Mt. St. Helens erupted back in 1980.

BJK:

Sure, a few people will always be stubborn simply to be stubborn - kind of like the hand full of people who refused to evacuate their homes when Mt. St. Helens erupted back in 1980.

Okay.

So would you adovcate forcing, by law, those people to be vaccinated?

Journalist Files Charges against WHO and UN for Bioterrorism and Intent to Commit Mass Murder:

By Barbara Minton
Natural Health Editor
Thursday, June 25, 2009
http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html

As the anticipated July release date for Baxter's A/H1N1 flu pandemic vaccine approaches, an Austrian investigative journalist is warning the world that the greatest crime in the history of humanity is underway. Jane Burgermeister has recently filed criminal charges with the FBI against the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations (UN), and several of the highest ranking government and corporate officials concerning bioterrorism and attempts to commit mass murder. She has also prepared an injunction against forced vaccination which is being filed in America. These actions follow her charges filed in April against Baxter AG and Avir Green Hills Biotechnology of Austria for producing contaminated bird flu vaccine, alleging this was a deliberate act to cause and profit from a pandemic.

Full article courtesy of and at(and other valuable doucumentation):

http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6671

wow..........

You're quite correct that babies have immature immune systems, and elderly people tend to have weaker immune systems. That's precisely the reason they are advised to get vaccinated. They are at higher risk than healthy young adults of dying of flu or its complications, or of plenty of other viruses or bacteria.

Any honest doctor or scientist will concede that no vaccine is 100% effective. But no medical treatment is ever 100% effective. However, the vast majority of people (probably over 95%) will respond to a given vaccine by producing antibodies to the virus or bacteria they are being immunized against. Even with a half decent immune system, people can still mount an antibody response.

In the rare cases of people born with no specific immune systems (no lymphocytes) or in people with terminal leukemia/lymphoma/AIDS, vaccines won't do much good.

****very good points upswing! I don't trust those people either

??

Yes, you know... all the celebrities that have bought into the anti-vaccine movement.

Great. I hope you will be getting one then.

I hope so too! You will be getting one also!

dfxdeimos:

I think mandatory vaccines are a great idea.

Any and all vaccines?

Even those that have not been tested, that contain known poisons and that have been shown to be 70% ineffectual?

Seems like a thrill-seeking kind of position to take.

Oh, and what celebrities are you referring to who are telling people not to take vaccines? (I don't have cable, so there might be hundreds of them. I just haven't heard about any of them.)

Even those that have not been tested, that contain known poisons and that have been shown to be 70% ineffectual?

I am not worried about known poisons, pretty much everything contains known poisons.

I suppose not ones that are proven to be ineffective, but I will wait for the NIH or CDC (or whomever) to make that determination.

Oh, and what celebrities are you referring to who are telling people not to take vaccines?

Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carey just to name two, I have heard others but can't recall their names. They are very vocal in their false assertion that vaccines have been linked to autism.

dfxdeimos:

Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carey just to name two, I have heard others but can't recall their names. They are very vocal in their false assertion that vaccines have been linked to autism.

Okay. Thanks for the info.

Yes, and they are brought to you by the same people that brought you vioxx, and engineered corn to reduce fertility in humans so the population could be decided upon by the ones in charge.

Yes, if you are comfy with that, then by all means, line up for the shot. While you're at it, have an extra helping of that substance in the water that helps keeps people docile by supressing thyroid function - flouride.

Yep, I am comfortable with it.

If Jenny says it, it must be true. Why let facts get in the way of sensationalism?