McCain adviser: Another attack on the U.S. 'would be a big advantage' for McCain

would be just in time to bolster the campaign of ELMER FUDD

I always though Cheney was Elmer Fudd. At least since the shooting incident.

"Shhhh. Be vewy, vewy quiet. I'm hunting GOP contwibutuhs."

Wait.. are you saying George "Patron Saint of Babies and Puppies" Bush and the Neo-Cons had something to do with an attack on the United States.?

YOU ARE A CRAZED LOON.

CONSPIRACY THEORIST ! EVERYONE LOOK! THIS GUY DOESNT THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS TELLING US THE TRUTH!

CRAZY LOON!

NUTJOB!

HOW DARE YOU!

(Heavy.... Heavy...... Heavy... Sarcasm)

If someone can think to themselves, "Hew, we might benefit politically from a terrorist attack" what exactly is stopping them from thinking to themselves, "Hey, why don't we just . . . ."

This is disgusting, and vile. Below Human-Kind.

The defenders of politics like this are subhuman.

Who...me?

Seriously, say it with me people - False Flag.

LisaG,

I'm not generally a conspiracy-believing person, however, what's transpired during the last 7+ years has given me pause. 9/11: I'm not convinced the U.S. government knew nothing about its imminence or even had nothing to do with perpetrating or enabling it.

Rightwing wackos in the 90's saw UN black helicopters hovering over their bowls of Captain Crunch. This 9/11 conspiracy stuff is the same bilge, only this time from Lefties. Do us a all a favor, please, and think for yourself. Bush does a fine job of being a tragic and diabolical figure on his own. These kinds of theories only serve to make him look better. Him and Dick did not organize 9/11. Radical Islamic terrorists really do exist. Step back from the edge, Lisa.

As for any future attacks? In this environment, it's gonna be a helluva mess trying to figure out who did what. That's why we all need to be rational.

nearing,

Government insider, Ian or just talking points?

Neither. It's called reason. Which you categorically decry as yet another clear example of the conspiracy. And if Americans calling on other Americans to be rational and to think for themselves is

the most condescending piece of crap I have ever heard on the Vine.

I am happy to bring it to you, nearing. It is my pleasure. You and the black helicopter guys are of the same ilk. Lisa deserves better.

I don't cotton to talking points, nearing. I detest them, whether they harken from government insiders or wacko conspiracy theorists. This administration is diabolical enough that they don't need you helping them out. Reason is what frightens them. You make them giddy.

nearing,

You referred to my comments as a condescending piece of crap. You then accused me of being a government insider or reading from talking points. You have now accused me of tossing garbage. I don't think my credibility is the issue here.

Why you tossed in

Sometimes people are correct in their assessment of their government being corrupt and not giving a damn about the people.

is beyond me. Other than being the first thing you have said that is indisputably true, it has nothing whatsoever to do with anything Lisa or I said. And it's inclusion is as puzzling as the ad hominem attack which you launched on me in the first place.

If you personally believe that the 9/11 conspiracies are true, that is your right. I disagree vehemently and I believe the propagation of these theories is dangerous for reasons I have already stated. I very much hope that Lisa doesn't buy into them. That Is why I addressed my comments to her. If my comments somehow struck a nerve with you, a nerve which I clearly had no intention of striking, I can only suggest that the next time this happens you take a deep breath before you launch into a hysterical assault. Your credibility will be well served.

A few days from now I might well read your posts. I might even find that I like them. But your behavior here, tonight, with me, is all I need to know for now.

the steel and building waste that was hauled off to China

Fact.

so none of the rest of us could see it?

Conjecture.

It also sounds a lot like the conspiracy-theory talk on the right when the ruins of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City were demolished and hauled away, although not until after a very thorough forensic examination.

LisaG

I'm not generally a conspiracy-believing person, however, what's transpired during the last 7+ years has given me pause. 9/11: I'm not convinced the U.S. government knew nothing about its imminence or even had nothing to do with perpetrating or enabling it.

Ian Walter

This 9/11 conspiracy stuff is the same bilge, only this time from Lefties. Do us a all a favor, please, and think for yourself. Bush does a fine job of being a tragic and diabolical figure on his own. These kinds of theories only serve to make him look better. Him and Dick did not organize 9/11. Radical Islamic terrorists really do exist. Step back from the edge, Lisa.

There are so many points here to address...I will try to be concise.

Why do you assert that I'm not thinking for myself? I said this administration's behavior has given me pause. I said I'm not convinced they had nothing to do with 9/11.

Have you looked at the evidence for yourself? That's what a critically thinking person would do before forming an opinion. There are many suspicious actions from the government regarding the events of 9/11...too many to write off as mere coincidence. So what happened?

The WTC after the attacks was a crime scene, yet the destruction was meddled with immediately. I understand searching for survivors, but to remove all of the evidence before a forensic investigation could be conducted is not how law enforcement works, particularly in a situation that devastating. Why will the government not show us the video of the plane flying into the Pentagon? All we get to see are the final seconds of the explosion--after something had hit the Pentagon. Why were officials told not to fly on 9/11? Why were our F-16s sent out to the Atlantic (by mistake, they say) instead of to New York? Is it coincidence that there was a military exercise going on at the precise moment of the attacks, despite the numerous conversations Richard Clarke had with Condoleeza Rice about this imminent threat and despite the recent intelligence memo provided to the president? Cheney and Bush were determined to invade Iraq. 9/11 was some half-baked excuse to do just that. We should all be thinking about these things.

It's fully documented that one of Cheney's main goals has to be set in place unprecedented executive power, and he accomplished that in the aftermath of 9/11. What better way to do it? Scare the population to death with warnings of more attacks, then begin to strip away their civil rights in the guise of protecting them. Bush and Cheney desperately wanted the Patriot Act and 9/11 gave it to them. But that wasn't enough. Illegal wiretapping is also explained away as a method of "protecting" us.

Consider how vehemently the Bush administration tried to prevent Cabinet members from testifying before Congress. Consider how hard the administration fought to prevent the 9/11 Commission. Consider how difficult it was for the 9/11 Commission to get the information it requested, repeatedly, from the administration. Does all that smell like innocence to you?

These are a few of the facts I've been considering. I suggest you take your own advice and start thinking for yourself and take a hard look at the facts before you conclude anything. If you believe your government isn't capable of perpetrating or enabling an event such as 9/11, you're woefully uninformed. We may never know the whole truth about 9/11, but we likely never will know the whole truth about Kennedy's assassination either.

P.S. I have no confidence that Bush could've done what he's done without Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, et al. We all know he's just not that smart.

The only conspiracy theorist is the people that believe that the airplanes and the fire actually had something to do with the towers falling. Please Educate yourself.
AE911truth.org
As to who did it? Look at what we did after and who we went to war for("Jews"). Those are the people who did it. The Gov't turned a blind eye to it. About the same blind eye that the people turn toward the facts. Look up Operation Northwoods and keep 911 in mind.

Truth101

What you cite here is just more evidence (call it "fodder," if you must, nonbelievers) for why I cannot simply accept the "official" story that came from D.C. regarding 9/11. If we want to be safe, we have to consider all of the evidence, that that which is uncomfortable.

I tend to think that those who don't want to believe their government could commit these kinds of crimes will simply refuse to take an objective look at the evidence.

LisaG,

Thank you ever so much for your reasoned response.

These are a few of the facts I've been considering. I suggest you take your own advice and start thinking for yourself and take a hard look at the facts before you conclude anything.

I have looked. I have looked hard. I have concluded that there is nothing there but a distraction.

If you believe your government isn't capable of perpetrating or enabling an event such as 9/11, you're woefully uninformed.

To the contrary, I believe in that capability beyond any shadow of a doubt. And therein lies the real nature of the problem. A concocted, egregiously false accusation only serves to make the accused look innocent, regardless of their culpability in other crimes. I do not for one minute believe that the vast majority of people who believe these 9/11 theories are intentionally trying to concoct anything, they are merely giving it a credence it does not deserve.

The people who stirred up the 9/11 theories in the beginning are like the cops who detest a known criminal gang so much that they decide to concoct evidence and magically create witnesses and trump a case. They justify doing so because, after all, this gang is a bad, bad bunch. The problem, of course, is that the good cops are out there building a real case against the gang, with real evidence, about real crimes. And as the evidence about the real crimes begins pouring in (rendition, torture, illegal wiretapping, perjury, false flags, corruption, murder, and countless other violations of and conspiracies to commit violations of international and U.S. law), the strong cases of the good cops are undermined by the false cases of the bad ones. The general public, the folks who want to know the truth, are put in a terrible spot. Who to believe?

Very often, when I am having conversations about the many crimes of this administration, I am asked to explain--by intelligent, informed, and decent people--the presence of the 9/11 conspiracies. And so, there I am, trying to explain how the egregiously silly and mysterious case of the bad cops does not in any way minimize or weaken the vitally important case(s) of the good cops.

This administration is the most corrupt and insidious administration in American history. Their many, many crimes were inspired by greed, lust for power, and an ideology bereft of decency. They considered themselves infallible, and they acted accordingly. The evidence is manifest and growing by the day. Like it or not, the distraction of 9/11 theories serves to provide this administration with cover for their other crimes. It undermines the credibility of those who seek to bring them to justice. I know this is not your intent, but I believe it to be true.

In your first message you wrote about having pause. I commend your for that. It is an increasingly precious commodity. When I spoke about "stepping back from the edge", I meant no offense. I believed you were headed toward believing something which was not befitting your reasonable nature. This is an age of propaganda. Though this administration is the chief perpetrator and most diabolical wielder of that tool, it does not belong to them exclusively. All of us have a responsibility to resist and condemn that propaganda, regardless of its source.

If the other (real) Bush administration crimes had been revealed earlier, I do not believe these false accusations would have gained any traction. Such was not the case. The reason for my vehemence about this issue, LisaG, is simple. I supported this administration in the last election, even though evidence of their crimes was already coming to light. I ignored that evidence, believing it came from the same place as the 9/11 theories, which I knew to be bunk. That was a terrible, terrible error on my part.

I have done my homework. I will never make the same mistake again, and I will continue to work to help others to step back from the edge of the same abyss that I fell into.

"truth101" (as you call yourself),

As to who did it? Look at what we did after and who we went to war for("Jews"). Those are the people who did it.

This comment of yours is disappointing, unnecessary and somewhat inflammatory. As a Jewish person, it bothers me that you would say this without attempting to back it up with concrete evidence.

They even have names for it, False Flags, Wag the Dog.... it has happened before.

Chasing, it would not benefit the Gentleman for Arizona.

All your base, belong to us!

Make your time because we are here now.

Ian,

I appreciate your in-depth response and consideration of the topic. The only offense I took to your original reply to me was your comment that I should think for myself. That is what I'm doing, even if my thoughts don't necessarily agree with yours.

The Bush administration's actions in the wake of 9/11 raise a glut of disturbing questions...reasonable questions based on evidence. The administration has resisted answering legitimate questions from Congress, the 9/11 Commission and the conspiracy theorists. When Bush and Cheney met with the 9/11 Commission, they refused to meet separately, they refused to take oaths, and they refused to allow any records to be made of the meeting. If the administration would come clean on such questions, it would help quell suspicions. But they won't. Cheney has been proven a liar over who was where and when just after the attack. Why did he lie?

Perhaps the most compelling question is: Who benefited from 9/11 and how did they benefit? Further, the neoconservative think tank, Project for the New American Century (and more PNAC info), has some scary members: Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Armitage, Richard Perle, John Bolton, Elliot Abrams, Lewis Libby, Douglas Feith and others--all individuals who found their way into the Bush administration.

Another curious question is: How did the government agencies so quickly identify the hijackers if the government had no knowledge of the impending attacks?

As I ponder the above, along with a mountain of other questions, I have yet to believe the Bush administration perpetrated or originated this event on its own. That said, I don't believe it's out of the question. The Kennedy administration tried the same thing with Cuba--and was willing to sacrifice American lives to do it.

You say that the 9/11 conspiracies make the "accused look innocent." I beg to differ. I think the theories make them look guilty as sin, and I do believe the theories deserve scrutiny.

My question to you, Ian, is, what have you discovered in your research that has caused you to so vehemently disbelieve any U.S. government complicity in 9/11?

I'm sorry to hear you supported GWB in 2004, but I am glad you have reversed your opinion of him and his cronies. I have regarded GWB as a type of antichrist since 2000 when I saw what Rove and the Bush campaign did to John McCain. Many crimes committed by this administration have been written about, talked about and completely documented for quite some time now, yet nothing has changed. As Jon Stewart says, GWB is "still-President Bush." Why has he (and the lizard, Dick Cheney) not been impeached? Why is this country so powerless to make change? Or is everyone like me: I would love to fight for justice--if I only knew how to go about it. I've written my senators and congresswomen/men. Yet nothing happens. Our forefathers must be rolling in their graves. Then again, maybe not.

As far as the rest of your thoughts, I am in near complete agreement with you. I appreciate your time and effort in discussing this with me and welcome an intelligent, respectful dialogue about this issue.

LisaG,

I am glad all is well between us. I understand why you wonder about 9/11. It's hard not to with this bunch.

My question to you, Ian, is, what have you discovered in your research that has caused you to so vehemently disbelieve any U.S. government complicity in 9/11?

You ask a fair question. Our intelligence community had many bits of good information available about pending attacks, but they were dispersed and incomplete pieces of information, rendering them useful only if a conscious effort had been made to assemble them. Little red flags were everywhere, but they were mixed in with all of the other little flags of various shades of red, as is the nature of the intelligence community. Bureacrats ignored them, passed them over to the next desk, yawned and shrugged, and went about their days without giving it much thought. A few agents had put together some incredibly good information that was begging to be cross-matched and compared with other bits which--if properly assembled--could have at least mitigated the attacks on 9/11, if not stopped them altogether. Mid-level and upper-level bureaucrats got our people killed on 9/11. It's not because they wanted the attacks to occur, or intentionally allowed them to happen. They merely presumed that they wouldn't or couldn't happen. They were more concerned about there tee-times and cocktail parties. This was the state of our intelligence community, both overseas and statedside, prior to 9/11. Never underestimate the power of incompetence. Dilbert cartoons do not only apply to the private sector, believe me.

So, the government was complicit only in that our civil servants were incredibly stupid. In fairness, the incompetence had been simmering for years, not months, but GW was at the helm and the buck stops in the throne room. That the cabal of the neo-cons was in place is true, but coincidental. They were still scratching their heads about how best to bring about their new world vision when UBL's guys handing over their boarding passes. The attacks became the vehicle for their vision, of course, but initially they were just hitch-hikers out looking for a ride to get them where they wanted to go.

That is my view, in a nutshell.

On the bright side! There is this:

Why is this country so powerless to make change?

We aren't. I believe it is happening.

I would love to fight for justice--if I only knew how to go about it. I've written my senators and congresswomen/men. Yet nothing happens.

November. November. November.

For the record, I do hereby unequivocally deem LisaG as a person who does (and did) think for herself, without fail. Anybody who does (or did) indicate otherwise, would be wrong. But if somebody did stoop so low as to insult LisaG in that manner, I am sure she knows they meant no harm. (Picture me as John Cleese hanging upside down, out a window, apologizing. That is me, now.)

Ian,

Hahaha...I'll start with your John Cleese visual. I hope you're not really hanging upside down. You'll get a rush of blood to the head.

As you accurately imply, the current administration's incompetence is almost indescribable in nature and scope. I still can't, however, write off all the questions about 9/11 to sheer ineptitude, clumsiness or the competition among government agencies. For me, it will likely remain one of those things that I don't necessarily believe but I will not forget the inquiries.

November--I hope so. If things don't look promising after the general election, I may have to start seriously considering getting my Irish citizenship so I can move to Europe.

The US policy of ignoring Israel's crimes and US imperialistic polices towards Middle East oil is what brought this all on.
It hasn't happened since 2001 but don't forget that there was a longer period of time between the first WTC and the second.

Oh come off it, 80% of the US population doesn't buy the official story, with good reason - namely all the evidence suggests the neo-con cabal were the perpetrators - with help from the mossad.

Greatest Treason ever committed in the History of this country and the sheeple still think Bush is a dumb, ignorant fool. Need to turn off that TV - it's been lying to you.

They manufactured islamic fundamentalism, been doing it for decades, in case they left that chapter out of your AP American History text too (they sure as hell left that out of mine). Then they use the saps they've produced to pull of their crimes and blame the whole she-bang on them and their ideology - Presto! Instant War.

you guys both seem rather delusional and misinformed. your contributions on various topics on the vine never seem to be constructive but instead, always laying down a negative tone. try, for everyone's sake and the general objective of the vine, to really contribute here in a positive and educational way. we would all appreciate it.

try, for everyone's sake and the general objective of the vine, to really contribute here in a positive and educational way. we would all appreciate it.

We do by pointing out the failures of the extreme right and the loss of freedoms due to the Bush administration.
We also point out how Islam has been used as a scapegoat.

you guys both seem rather delusional and misinformed.

No we see through the lies.

we would all appreciate it.

Hmmm, I don't see your comment in a green newsvine box. Are you speaking for anyone but yourself?

Israel Kasnet:"This comment of yours is disappointing, unnecessary and somewhat inflammatory. As a Jewish person, it bothers me that you would say this without attempting to back it up with concrete evidence."

Facts! You need facts. Do you have your duel citizenship? First to Israel and then to...hmmmm no other. The AIPAC runs this country. You don't mind blaming everything on the "Islamic" now do you. Do you need evidence of the murders of the palestinians? How about the men that was on top of the van watching the whole thing happen from the start. FBI questions them and then some country says that they must go back. And guess what? Turns out they were spies from this country. Back safe and secure in there country. WMD! who was scared of some other country "Maybe" having some weapons to protect themselves. And now Iran. We have no Reason what-so-ever to be over there. It's not for oil. This is a lie from are great media, also owned by these people. I find what's going on over there very disappointing, unnecessary. I love all people from all walks of life and my wish is that all would live in Peace. But when some people think they rule all other people, This is Wrong.

Your response is incoherent.

Thank You.. This is how people possessing of a soul think.

Bada-bing, Perry O.

What a bunch of self-serving jerks.

Read as psychopaths, and you'll get a much better idea of what's going on.

To be a bit more serious....

The only right thing for McCain to do here is to send that man packing. Any idea that another attack would be welcomed in any way is a horrible, horrible idea. The nerve of than man. And McCain as a former member of our military should in no way continue to associate with him.

He's a lucky man I wasn't near him when he said this. I would have layed him out right there. It'll be kind of hard for him to welcome another attack with a broken jaw.

Would it be wrong if I was to join in on said hypothetical situation?

Of course if I started, I would probably have a hard time finding the inspiration to stop...

Black has admitted making the statement, and McCain said before the cameras today that he "disagrees" with what Black said. It was a tepid, half-hearted, wink-wink "denial" that is typical of McCain. He should have denounced Black's statement in much stronger terms and sent Black packing. Of course, McCain doesn't have to, because the McCain-loving media has failed to give this story wide coverage. Ol' John just keeps getting a free ride from the media.

this still feels me with a huge amount of anger.

CNN just mentioned the story. Apparently the guy thinks he did not say that? What a joke. This is how McCain will run the country, folks. More incompetence if these guys get into the White House.

You would think after 7 1/2 years of the worst presidential Administration in US history, people would have learned a lesson.

Look, the last thing we need is to marshelize America into the state of our grandparents. The world already knows we can do that and we proved it in WWII.

Every American is imbued with the spirit of Sitting Bull. However, Sitting Bull ultimately regretted the little big horn. In my life time, my parents were capable of wipe all human kind from the planet in 20 minutes. That my friends were the world I grew up in. There is no cause to go back to that time, more so, we more than ever need to move forward because there is another way. Diplomacy is the way of the future. I know those of you who disagree only because you wish to go back to the days of ICBMs and fleets of Boomer Subs, but seriously, Ronald Reagan did show us another way to bring down that wall.

Much like Sitting Bull, it is a matter of simply asking them to sit by our fire and acknowledging their position to trade. We must accept the situation as it is and learn to negotiate a lasting peace. Condemning the cultures of the Middle East, despite the crimes of a delusional few, is not the way to deal with the situation at hand. Sadly yes and I know you youngsters out there probably don't believe this, but we have the ability to turn all of the Middle East into one great big piece of glass, though who will ultimately suffer for such an action, because it will not make it better, but only worse. Of course, my parents would have been more than capable of accomplishing this task in less than 15 minutes. Yet, fortunately, we have stepped back from that ability in my generation. Never the less, it still can be done, and Israel and as the rest of the holly lands would all be forever frozen in the desert heat 14 times greater than the sun.

If we are to learn from any lessons of our ancestors, especially in America, it is this, we know we can slaughter yet can we trade? That was the question of Sitting Bull took to his grave.

Well said. Unfortunately those that think that "because these people want us dead and there's no negotiating with them" don't have a clue WHY they want us dead. I can think of a few reasons but the one that I continue to come back to is the one with "speaking softly and carrying a big stick" except we beat people over the head with that stick before we even utter one single word to them. See how far THAT'S gotten us and here you have people the world over detesting the United States and her citizens.

Sitting Bull had it right. Find out why your enemies don't like you and go from there. Compromising *gasp* is something that can only benefit all parties involved. It's not appeasment by any stretch of the definition of the word. It's called PEACE TALKS by another name pure and simple.

I think the issue here is that many republicans are all too willing to use a terror attack as an example as to why you cannot trust anyone but them.

The answer doesn't have to be offensive. Many of us want to believe that you should never see a terror attack as benefiting another's political motives. Clearly McCain's administration does.

You might wanna check out this book, The Paranoia Switch by Martha Stout. She uses her 30+ years in psychology and trauma counseling to demonstrate, scientifically, exactly what these fear-brokers do and how they get away with it.

What's the other choice?

See my comment above.

e.c. You might have a point except for one little fact--Black didn't just blurt out the statement in some sort of tizzy. He was asked a question and answered it. Maybe we should wonder about the person asking the question and baiting him? There seems to be a whole lot of that on both sides of the aisle. I vote all "news" people be gagged and kept in a closet until after the election.

Um, just exactly HOW would McCain "afford us protection from having nuclear devices globally warming up our neighborhoods?" By jutting out his jaw and striking a manly pose, and singing "bomb bomb Iran?" By telling Iran (Shi'ite Muslim) to stop training Al Qaeda (Sunni Muslim) terrorists? By building a great big bomb-proof umbrella in the sky? Or by tucking you into bed at night and promising that Daddy will keep you safe?

Two sides of the Same Pathocratic Coin.

Welcome to Pathocracy ladies and gentlemen, be careful - believe too many of their lies and you'll start to think just like they do.

I think another attack would help McCain only since it would destroy Obama first. Obama is seeking pacification and diplomacy. While I personally believe strongly in implementing diplomacy instead of force, there comes a point when you have to face the reality of the situation and know how to proceed. I'm not convinced Obama will know how to make tough decisions. Inaction in the face of terror may bring Obama down before he gets a chance to talk to anyone first.

I'm not so sure McCain's policies are more beneficial for America but they can probably be considered more realistic. Terrorists are looking for the next naive Neville Chamberlain. They won't find him in McCain but he must also recognize that diplomacy plays an important factor in resolving international conflicts and differences.

Terrorists are looking for the next naive Neville Chamberlain.

Wrong again: they are looking for the US to leave the middle east alone.

Everyone knows who perpetrated the attacks. It was a group of Saudis but the Bush family is too chummy with the Saudis to attack them on their own soil so Bush went after some other equally evil people in Afghanistan and Iraq. While Bush is correct in that America must face terror with force, he must also recognize that the Saudis are equally responsible for today's global terror activity.

It's was the Media and GOP REP.talk shows that brought race into play, the way different votes play in what state. Every time you listen to conversation relating to votes you heard HRC winning the whites in Pa. Obama needs to win 55 yrs and older white votes. Clinton lost black votes in S.C state or he needs white men. Who can carry the Jewish and catholics don"t forget the hispanics. If someone keeps telling you, you are in a different race classification in order for one candidate to win. We didn't"t need to know statistics on how our vote were cast. People didn't"t need to reminded of that. We already knew states concerning a black man and a white women was a major event in itself. But to say Obama brought race up first is wrong. Go back and listen to every thing from the beginning of the primary it was introduced. On the Internet, Radio, TV, or someone we know.

This is all a bunch of malarkey. Who cares who said what when. They are all "Politicians". The very word translates into Pandering, Vote Sucking, Finger Pointing, Not Me Claiming, Brash Speaking, Two-Tongued, Lazy Bellied Slip Slackers. Who would sell out their own pastors for Political gain. (Oops.. that already happened X 2)

I think I'll vote for my son. He just turned 18 and God knows there is no better man alive.